New log splitter

Chainsaw_Maniac · Mar 1, 2004

eric: That is pretty cheap on materials. It'll be nice.

I find that the differance between the cheap ones and the expensive ones is usually about the quality of the engine and the hydrolics.

Kleek: Split Fire makes a good splitter. Do you find that you take adavantage of splitting on both forward and back stroke? I find it's eaier to just split on one end of it considering how fast the cylander moves.

eric_271 · Mar 1, 2004

chainsaw trust me if I had the money I would buy the closest splitter to what I want then pay someone els to to make it exactly the way I want it. However Im cursed with to many good parts laying around that need to be used.

Kleek · Mar 1, 2004

chainsaw, I really like splitting both directions, but to really maximize it, I sometimes use up to 3 extra people to help. I use an old farm elevator under the splitter to move all the split wood. On the split-fire, the wood stays on the machine until I push it off, one-way splitters push the wood off the end of the machine, a real problem to me if it needs re-split. The design of the wedge moving thru the wood seems safer to me than vice-versa, probably isn't, though.

Chainsaw_Maniac · Mar 1, 2004

Ya, I was just about to say before that if you aren't working alone I can see the advantage of splitting both ways.

As for safety, you may be right. On the other hand sometimes a piece of wood will suddenly split in half with such force that it actually gets thrown out of the splitter. So what ever style you have you don't want to be standing where it might get shot out.

caryr · Mar 1, 2004

eric_271 · Mar 2, 2004

Cary u can bet the wedge will be attached to the beem. Wedge will be welded to 1 inch thick steel plate 10 inches wide. the bottom of that plate will be milled a hair over 7 inches wide and about 9/16 deep. There will be 2 one inch thick plates for the bottom . each will have to be milled about 5/8 deep except the last inch and a half on each plate, that is what butts to the top plate. they are then drilled and tapped for 3 5/8 bolts each. slotting top and bottom plates is for guide and to keep the wedge from going any where but straight ahead. The top plates leading edge also has to be beveled back so the wedge has smooth transition into the log.

Chainsaw_Maniac · Mar 2, 2004

Hi Cary,

I don't have a 2 stage pump on either of my tractors but my neighbor has it on his Ford which is about 100 HP. This kind of thing is internal to the tractor and can be chosen as an option when buying a high-end tractor. That's not a practical option cost wise except for farming.

John Paul Sanborn · Mar 2, 2004

Brandon, (if you're still following this thread then) since you allready said the volume you wnt to work (are you planning on increasing it?) you need to look at how much money the machine will make you. Then go for one that you can afford.

I really like the Faver. The country club I worked for got one and love it for the productivity.

The lift is by the work station.

You can stack the big splits against the back wall to split multiple pieces easilly.

the 4 way wedge adjusts hydraulicly....

2 speed hydraulics...

It costs around 5 grand though....

Maybe for what you plan on doing a hardwear store two position rail would be the best. A maichine that is faster then a maul, but well within the budget to make you money.

If I remember right the TW-5 was in the same price range as the Faver.

caryr · Mar 2, 2004

topnotchtree · Mar 2, 2004

My foreman told me about a splitter his buddy built.He basically designed a cherry picker that mounted to the beam in a round post. The main boom was lifted with a hydraulic ram. There was a smaller boom that slid in the main boom. There was a set of tongs attached to the end.It sounded like it worked great. You first lowered the boom, pointing it downward allowed you to easily slide out the inner boom to reach the log. when you lifted the boom upright, the inner boom slid back in, hitting stoppers, that placed the lifted log right where it needed to be. The booms were mounted using round tubing so you could swing the booms whichever way you needed. I sure hope I am explaining this the way I picture it in my mind.

eric_271 · Mar 3, 2004

Hi topnotchtree I understand what you are talking about and have considerd something close to that. My idea was a hyd gear moter hooked to a trolly to roll on the boom and to be run by the splitter pump how ever I think I am just going to build the splitter so I can stand it vertical when needed. SPLITez has a splitter real close to what Im building cept the steel is a little thicker on my beem and mine will have small tabels on both sides of the beem about two feet long and a foot and a half wide.

mr bobcatman · Feb 5, 2005

i also need some help and ideas!

hi guys great site.i am also trying to put a splitter together i have a cylinder that came of a 331 (bobcat excavator) i know it extends 27 inches and it is about 5 inches across.i have a older 8 horse motor i found an H beam yesterday now i need some more parts and help i checked northern they have most of the parts any suggestions for the rest of the parts and how to put it together.time is not an issue i looked at store bought splitters and i don't care for the way they are built.i have to tow this on the highway and most of the store bought ones would be scary at 75 mph.like i said i love to read your posts i have learned alot already keep up the good job.thanks

eric_271 · Feb 6, 2005

bobcatman Do a search on splitez log splitters. That is what Im baseing mine off of. There are a lot of different splitter styles also so take your time looking til you find something that works for you. With as big a cylinder as what you have, to run it fast you will need a pretty good gpm two stage pump. Both are important. Say 16 to 22 gpm at least and make sure it is a 2 stage pump. Post a pic when you get it done. New axel's dont cost that much. If you cant find a good used one go to a trailer supply and buy one.

mr bobcatman · Feb 7, 2005

eric_271 thanks for the advice.i was going to use a 16gpm 2 stage pump but i will look into the 22 gpm and see what the engine requirements are. if you or other people have more suggestions please post them it is still early in my project so i have time to change things around.

mr bobcatman · Feb 7, 2005

splitting edges

i have a question for all of you.how high or long do you make the splitting wedge?6,8,10 inches what works best!

eric_271 · Feb 7, 2005

prob a 10 inch wedge or more. 8 hp will be ok for the 16 gpm but with as big a cylinder as you have it will be some what slower. On a 4 or 4 1/2 cylinder that 16 gpm and 8 hp will give you and one other person a pretty good work out. To get the 5 inch cylinder to run that fast will take the 22 gpm pump and 12 or 13 hp. Some people dont care how fast their splitter runs. I do and I dont want to kill a lot of time splitting a little wood.

SilentElk · Feb 8, 2005

Here's some tips for hydraulic systems.[/B]

Alot depends on how fast you want your machine to move. Someone earlier said it right: PSI = power and GPM = Speed. Rule of thumb for hydraulics, assuming 85% pump efficency, is as follows:

1HP=1 Gpm @ 1500 psi

Theoretically based on the above said to run 22 GPM at 2500 psi will require 36.6 Hp engine. This however is NOT for a 2 stage pump. This is your basic single stage hydraulic pump.

The benefit of a 2 stage pump is the ability to gear down and provide higher PSI when a load is applied. A 2 stage pump will run at the higher flow until the pressure hits approx 650-750 psi. At which point the pump will gear down and provide approx 2500-3000 psi, 4 times higher than the 650-750, but the Gpm's (cylinder speed) will also be reduced by a factor of 4. On the higher pressure geared mode on a 22 gpm pump will move at 5.5 gpms.

Cylinder speeds*

4" bore @ 22 gpm = 405 in/per minute
4" bore @ 5.5 gpm= 101 in/per min.
5" bore @ 22 gpm = 259 in/per min.
5" bore @ 5.5gpm = 64.6 in/per min.
*these are for the push(power) stroke on cylinder. Retracting speeds will higher, with a large rod significantly higher, but vary dependant on rod diameter.

Power based on PSI and cylinder size

4" bore @ 750 psi = 9428 lbs
4" bore @ 3000 psi =37,710 lbs ( about 19 tons)
5" bore @ 750 psi = 14,730 lbs
5" bore @ 3000psi = 58,920 lbs (about 29.5 tons)

and for the Tim the tool man splitter...Hehe.... 14" bore @ 3000 psi = 461,700 lbs (231 tons!! I had to throw that in there)

Now bore is the internal diameter of a cylinder. I would recommend a 5" unless you are strickly doing pine or other easy splitting woods then a 4" will run just fine. The rod diameter is the nice shiny part the extends from the cylinder. This is what pushes the wedge. I would not recommend a rod of less than 2" on either a 4" or 5" bore cylinder. They most likely will bend at some point. A rod of 3" would be slick though and provide insanely fast retract speeds but a rod that big could potentially add 50%, give or take, to the price of cylinder.

Now other considerations that are very often overlooked on people making their own machines is hose selection. Certain criteria must be met or you will be literally be throwing speed and energy away and in some case significantly heating you hydraulic system up beyond recommended temps shortening the life of all components and wasting gas in the engine.

Pressure loss at given flow rates

10 gpm w/ 3/8" hose will drop 185 psi
10 gpm w/ 1/2" hose will drop 73 psi

20 gpm w/ 1/2" hose will drop 146 psi
20 gpm w/ 3/4" hose will drop 47 psi
20 gpm w/ 1" hose will drop 14 psi

25 gpm w/ 1/2" hose will drop 180 psi
25 gpm w/ 3/4" hose will drop 59 psi
25 gpm w/ 1" hose will drop 23 psi

These pressure drops are per 100 feet of hose. To get close to specific flow losses, look at what hose you desire to use for your pressure line and add 15 feet of hose length for each fitting the fluid must pass through. Now add 15 feet for each 90 deg fitting. Now add the length of the actual hose. Now do the same for your return line. Take the total number of feet between them both and divide by 100 feet. Now multiply the remaining number by the psi numbers given above.

Typically most systems are made from 1/2" but will loss about 180-240 psi due to friction. This friction wil be dissapated into heat and in some cases can cause chattering of a hose if the hose is quite bit under sized. Chattering hoses will rub and fail very fast potentially causing injury and sometimes burns if the system was run to long and system became super heated.

A loss of 200 psi means this to a logsplitter: the 2 stage pump will kick in at 200 psi lower, around 450-550 psi. This lower psi means your 2 stage pump will gear down when a much smaller amount of resistance to the cylinder in encountered. So instead of splitting easy stuff nice and fast it will gear down. Ever had your logger splitterbounce between fast and slow speed? This is one common cause. I personally would use 1/2" hoses at 15 psi and less. For pumps rated higher 3/4" hose to about 30ish gpms will work. Very important- make sure you hoser that runs to push stroke of the cylinder is rated for a working pressure of 3000 psi or greater. This is the down side of 3/4" hose since it costs about 2-3 times as much per foot as 1/2" hose. I should know, I sold around 23,000 hydraulic fittings this last year.

This took forever to write up but hope someone will make a little use of it.

PS- Hydraulic supplies off Ebay are a great way to go. I just spent $930 the other day on there buying stuff from a guy. All brand new. He saved me close to $700 dollars. And that's with the almost wholesale pricing I get too!

Best'o'luck!

eric_271 · Feb 8, 2005

Silentelk Say your ports in the cylinder and control valve are 1/2 inch. Can you push more oil gpm through a 1 inch line reduced down too 1/2 inch then a 1/2 inch hose bolted up to half inch ports? I may be wrong on this but for the purpose of speed just adding a larger hose will not gain you that much if you have to reduce down because of smaller port size. Woulden't the one inch hose on a half inch port be the same as a restricter? Like I say my thoughts may be off on that but when I had my 5 inch cylinder built I told them to weld in 3/4 inch ports to match the 3/4 inch ports in the control valve.

ray benson · Feb 8, 2005

TreeCo said:
Another rule of thumb is to have 3 times the resivior than your GPM to allow air to rise out of the oil before it's sucked back into the pump causing cavitation.

I have run across the 3 gal tank capacity for each 1 gal pump capacity rule of thumb. But I believe that is for continuous duty
hydraulic systems in industrial plants.I have also read to use the 1 gal tank capacity for each gal of pump capacity.The
commercially built logsplitters are lucky to follow the 1 to 1 rule.Most use about 1/2 gal tank capacity for each gal of pump
capacity.To keep the air in the system to a minimum - the line going back to the tank should discharge the oil BELOW the
oil level in the tank.
Here are a few companies making quality splitters - you can see their specs and use them as a guideline
http://www.timberwolfcorp.com/splitters/product_line.htm
http://www.logsplitters-ironoak.com...t=&PHPSESSID=a1d9828a86137a9cf3fbf4fd5fcccce1
http://www.logsplitters-ironoak.com...df?PHPSESSID=a1d9828a86137a9cf3fbf4fd5fcccce1
http://www.tricountysupply.com/stor..._Code=Brave0234/HondaGXES&Category_Code=Brave
Ray

SilentElk · Feb 8, 2005

eric_271 said:
Silentelk Say your ports in the cylinder and control valve are 1/2 inch. Can you push more oil gpm through a 1 inch line reduced down too 1/2 inch then a 1/2 inch hose bolted up to half inch ports? I may be wrong on this but for the purpose of speed just adding a larger hose will not gain you that much if you have to reduce down because of smaller port size. Woulden't the one inch hose on a half inch port be the same as a restricter? Like I say my thoughts may be off on that but when I had my 5 inch cylinder built I told them to weld in 3/4 inch ports to match the 3/4 inch ports in the control valve.

You are right for the most part. The 1/2" ports in the cylinder often are a point of restriction however since it is such a short gap often you can force the fluid with minimal loss. In such cases it is better to have 3/4" hose but you won't gain nearly as much as you could if the ports were 3/4" too.

New log splitter

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