0.5% of the oil goes on the operator
- Thread starter Tom Dunlap
- Start date
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maggiesboy
ArboristSite Operative
skoupy and ulrich
Boy oh boy! t sounds like ol' skoupy and ulrich have got some time and one dandy of a oil collection devise on thier hands. Who funds these folks to perform such tests? treehuggers! phooey! Bill Jr
Boy oh boy! t sounds like ol' skoupy and ulrich have got some time and one dandy of a oil collection devise on thier hands. Who funds these folks to perform such tests? treehuggers! phooey! Bill Jr
Actually one of the more intelligent links I've seen on this site. I do have to wonder about the 2 litres/day figure. That's over 1/2 gallon per day per saw!
How about it, loggers. Is this a valid figure?
How about it, loggers. Is this a valid figure?
maggiesboy
ArboristSite Operative
OIL USE
I chased for my dad (V6Bill) after I got out of high school. I ran a 044, darn sure I didn't use that much oil, I spilled that much, but the saw sure didn't. After a month of work, and a month of no work due to fire danger, I found a job that didn't require as much physical demand on my body. I went in the ARMY! Those big southeast Washington pines are a hell of a way to break in a new chaser! no thanks! Bill Jr
I chased for my dad (V6Bill) after I got out of high school. I ran a 044, darn sure I didn't use that much oil, I spilled that much, but the saw sure didn't. After a month of work, and a month of no work due to fire danger, I found a job that didn't require as much physical demand on my body. I went in the ARMY! Those big southeast Washington pines are a hell of a way to break in a new chaser! no thanks! Bill Jr
JimL
Addicted to ArboristSite
Friend of mine worked in the woods with a saw since he was 12, when he turned 20 he joined the marines.
Said their hard stuff is half as hard as walking around the woods cuttin trees.
Said he didnt like the fact they made him sleep in till 5am either.
Said their hard stuff is half as hard as walking around the woods cuttin trees.
Said he didnt like the fact they made him sleep in till 5am either.
Tom - This .5% number seems high to me. Based on the study’s rate of 2.0 liters of bar oil per chainsaw per day, 2.0 liters x .005 = .01 Liter of oil on the saw operator. The .01 Liter is the equivalent of 1/3 an ounce of bar oil sprayed on your chaps every day.
This would be roughly the same as pouring/spraying 3 shot glasses of oil on your chaps to simulate a 2 week (10 day) work period. I think some bar oil is sprayed on your clothes from the saw, probably more like .1% or less (at least 5 times less).
The authors of this study are trying to justify an environmental study with what would be a workplace safety issue in the states. Long term exposure to chainsaw bar oil, (clean oil) may generate some kind of a health issue. But I think the exposure to used motor oil (carcinogens) is generally regarded as more serious & OSHA would more than likely require the workers in the grease pit at the local Quick-Lube franchise to wear protective clothing before focusing on any bar oil related hazards to chainsaw operators.
Mike
eyolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
8-1/2 to 11 million liters/year in Germany? From chain saws?
Please...
Western European forestry is pretty highly mechanized, and much of their timber is harvested from plantations where the rotations are kept relatively short to take advantage of the rapid growth of young trees. I sincerly doubt if 11 million liters of oil are used in chainsaws in germany even if you count the gasoline burned as well.
Please...
Western European forestry is pretty highly mechanized, and much of their timber is harvested from plantations where the rotations are kept relatively short to take advantage of the rapid growth of young trees. I sincerly doubt if 11 million liters of oil are used in chainsaws in germany even if you count the gasoline burned as well.
tony marks
Addicted to ArboristSite
ok im coming out swinging on this crap.
95 percent of chainsawing is done by 5 percent of the saws sold. and he wants us to believe this relatively small,, number of chainsaw operation,by pros in the buisiness,,is affecting the enviroment.
man ill agree the earth has gotten smaller ,,in this modern age.. but not that dam small.
ill admit there are some enviromental concerns ,,we need to address..
but what hes doing is like swattin at a mosquita ,,rite after u just hit a hornets nest with u chainsaw.
see there i got chainsaw in my post.
95 percent of chainsawing is done by 5 percent of the saws sold. and he wants us to believe this relatively small,, number of chainsaw operation,by pros in the buisiness,,is affecting the enviroment.
man ill agree the earth has gotten smaller ,,in this modern age.. but not that dam small.
ill admit there are some enviromental concerns ,,we need to address..
but what hes doing is like swattin at a mosquita ,,rite after u just hit a hornets nest with u chainsaw.
see there i got chainsaw in my post.
SilverBlue
Addicted to ArboristSite
Shane McMahon did list references to the article, it would be interesting to invite him here to discuss it.
Bar oil could be made from base oils that are harmless. Todays group 3 mineral oil base stocks are so pure they are clear in color and do not have and of the aromatic,sulfur and heavy metal compounds that are pressent in regular group1 stocks. They would cost a little more, but not much. Here is some more info on what I am talking about. http://www.htlubricants.com/eng/prodserv/lubesgreases/8423.htm
FWIW I think this "study" is bunk.
FWIW I think this "study" is bunk.
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Without knowing the data and collection methods from the study its pretty hard to know if the research is valid.
I'll bet dollars to donuts that even if the numbers were reduced by a factor of ten there would still be just as much uproar as is going on right now.
About three years ago I started to wonder about where the bar lube went afterwards. Two of us spent an hour cutting up logs for an hour. We used about a gallon of oil. When we were done I looked around and realized that we were right on the edge of a drainage into a wetlands. Where was most of the oil going? Some was washing into the drainage.
I've alwasys tried to mitigate my effect on the earth. Most times it only takes minor changes. After doing a lot of research I concluded that using canola oil from the grocery store was an effective bar lube. Besides being earth friendly its cheaper too To me, those are both compelling reasons to switch.
Most decisions in life aren't made when the evidence is overwhelming. Most are made because of a number of small reasons added together.
I know that a lot of oil gets sprayed back on me. I don't wash my chainsaw pants as often as my jeans so they get to looking and smelling like a shop rag sometimes. Even if there is a small health risk from the oil, either veggie or petro, on me, it's really nasty smelling like the Kwik Lube. Since I switched, I smell more like the popcorn stand
Tom
I'll bet dollars to donuts that even if the numbers were reduced by a factor of ten there would still be just as much uproar as is going on right now.
About three years ago I started to wonder about where the bar lube went afterwards. Two of us spent an hour cutting up logs for an hour. We used about a gallon of oil. When we were done I looked around and realized that we were right on the edge of a drainage into a wetlands. Where was most of the oil going? Some was washing into the drainage.
I've alwasys tried to mitigate my effect on the earth. Most times it only takes minor changes. After doing a lot of research I concluded that using canola oil from the grocery store was an effective bar lube. Besides being earth friendly its cheaper too
To me, those are both compelling reasons to switch.Most decisions in life aren't made when the evidence is overwhelming. Most are made because of a number of small reasons added together.
I know that a lot of oil gets sprayed back on me. I don't wash my chainsaw pants as often as my jeans so they get to looking and smelling like a shop rag sometimes. Even if there is a small health risk from the oil, either veggie or petro, on me, it's really nasty smelling like the Kwik Lube. Since I switched, I smell more like the popcorn stand
Tom
Gee Tom, If you went through a gallon of oil in an hour, are you sure you weren't running the Predator?
Heck, I can't imagine that much oil use, unless you bucked close to 10 cord of wood....maybe try turning down the oiler...unless you are running a 42 inch bar or longer, or using a dull chain, the max setting is rarely needed.
For instance, in the last three days, we went through maybe 1 gallon of oil. But we did 2 24 inch dbh Hemlock, one 115 footer leaning in the other, house threatened, took a 36 " dbh'r off a house, removed 2 20 inchers, and removed a 110 foot cottonwood. All but the cwood were bucked to 16-18" wood.
I also disagree with the volumes posted in that study. But I do think that I should consider searching for a good source of biodegradable bar oil.
Heck, I can't imagine that much oil use, unless you bucked close to 10 cord of wood....maybe try turning down the oiler...unless you are running a 42 inch bar or longer, or using a dull chain, the max setting is rarely needed.
For instance, in the last three days, we went through maybe 1 gallon of oil. But we did 2 24 inch dbh Hemlock, one 115 footer leaning in the other, house threatened, took a 36 " dbh'r off a house, removed 2 20 inchers, and removed a 110 foot cottonwood. All but the cwood were bucked to 16-18" wood.
I also disagree with the volumes posted in that study. But I do think that I should consider searching for a good source of biodegradable bar oil.
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
The two saw we were using were an 066 with 38" bar and a 371 w/28" bar. Big logs and all dense hardwoods like sugar maple, oak, hackberry.
I lost track of how much fuel we used. There was a lot of chips on the ground!
Tom
I lost track of how much fuel we used. There was a lot of chips on the ground!
Tom
maggiesboy
ArboristSite Operative
Predator / other unlimited saw bar oil
I ran the Predator a year ago, did not have an automatic oiler, I don't think Robert has put one on either. Last weekend V6 Bill and I did a "small show". About 20 cuts with three unlimited hotsaws. We put bar oil in hand held pump cans to oil the bar before start up, during warm up, and right after shut down. over the span of 4 hours we did use 1/2 gallon of that great "Spotted Owl" brand bar oil. Bill Jr
I ran the Predator a year ago, did not have an automatic oiler, I don't think Robert has put one on either. Last weekend V6 Bill and I did a "small show". About 20 cuts with three unlimited hotsaws. We put bar oil in hand held pump cans to oil the bar before start up, during warm up, and right after shut down. over the span of 4 hours we did use 1/2 gallon of that great "Spotted Owl" brand bar oil. Bill Jr
Stumper
One Man Band
I like Canola Oil but It is about double the price of Bar oil for me. No biggie since I only use 8-10 gallons per year. I use grocery store canola exclusively in my Power Pruner and about half the time in my climbing saw. I've been hesitant to switch on the bigger saws. If I wear out bars and chains faster then it might have no environmental benefit. Thus far I haven't noticed any increased wear on the small saws so maybe I ought to switch in everything. The "stabilized" canola from Stihl is sure pricey!
Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
I switched one saw to canola oil since I am cutting hay bales and indirectly Ill be eating that hay and oil. It sure does not leave as unpleasant a smell on your clothes as mineral oil. Probably 25% more for me than bar oil. Interested to see how it is wear wise.
Frank
Frank
How do we know that canola is any better than mineral oil? Intuition says it is, but you never know.
Stumper
One Man Band
Ben, Point well taken, but vegetable oil is more biodegradable than Mineral oil.- The fact that it oxidizes readily and can go rancid is why Stihl's bio stuff is "stabilized" and costly.
