0.5% of the oil goes on the operator

[Crofter]

Ben, when it comes to ingesting it, trust you intuition. Wear and tear? Carcinogens............... I think I'll take the vegitable oil. If the canola jells up at minus 25 F what do you thin it with...ethyl alcohol? SilverBlue says we mustn't use Kerosene..... no I don't want my cows having keosene smell in the milk.....dang it life used to be a lot simpler!

Frank

 

[bwalker]

I cant help but wonder if a ester based lube would not be better than "stabilized" canola. It probaly cost less and would biodegrade faster.

Carcinogens...............

Highly refined, pure mineral oil is not a carcinogin. What do you think baby oil is? The carcinogens come from all the heavy metal ep,and aw compunds found in motor oil ,which bar oil does not have. I actually doubt if regular bar oil has any cancer causing agents in it. Its my understanding that summer bar oil was simply 30 wt mineral oil with a tack additive added.

 

[trimmmed]

Mineral oil is used as a foodsafe finish. It's Non toxic

 

[eyolf]

I'd like to ask about the canola thing...is genuine pure canola oil the best veggie oil, or is almost any veggie oil useful as a bar lube?
Canola is a bit more expensive than some others; I think generic, variable source (soy, sunflower, corn) oils can be had for about $3/gallon at the store without searching too hard. At that price it is nearly competitive with bar oil down at the farm supply store.

I pay around $2 for a quart of canola to use in the kitchen. I could use cheaper oil in the chainsaw if it really does work, however...I don't care if the el-cheapo oil tastes a little rancid to the wildlife, but will my work clothes start to smell that way?

Many of the old masters used walnut or grape seed oils in making their paints, old Italian violins have natural oil varnishes fortified with beeswax on them too. The point is veggie oils will become varnish, even without heat...is that a problem? If so, how is it dealt with?

 

[Sylvatica]

The attached "Environmental Health Issues" report walks the fence, straddling the beneficial and harmful effects of forestry.

But all the while they craftily stab away at forestry, and position to gain credibility by occaisionally stating that some of the practices have benefits. This is a new tactic with many groups - to throw in a mainstream thought or opinion with their communications to obviate the perception that they have an extreme agenda.

But this article could have been far more aggressive against the usual enviro-targets: Big Oil and Big Logging.

Here's a surprising admission -

"Large clearcuts and the retention of logging residues (branch materials and standing dead wood) are two issues often causing public reaction because of the association of these practices with a perceived decline in ecosystem sustainability. However, this association may not be based in fact, as what is valued in terms of visual quality does not imply benefit for the environment. Retention of residues, although looking ugly, does provide habitat and food for animal life, and provides for some cycling of nutrients and organic matter."

But here is a bit of hypocrisy. Cutting trees...bad. Agriculture...good, even though cutting had to be done to open up agricultural land. As long as they don't have to see the clearing, it's ok?

"Through insensitive harvesting, particularly large clearcuts, the forest industry has the potential to dramatically modify the landscape, the effects of which are often evident for many years. This contrasts with other land uses such as agriculture or horticulture, where the cycles of change are less evident."

And this is a surprising admission -

"...there have been no real documented adverse impacts on soils, wildlife and humans from herbicide use in forestry (Kimmins 1992)."

Anyway, I know a couple. Very wealthy liberals, fancy home on many acres. Their home is made of all fancy woods on nearly every visible surface. Wouldn't you know they are big Sierra Clubbers, and are very opposed to anyone else building their own home, utilizing their own piece of land for building, or consuming any wood materials. Once they've got theirs, the rest of us can pound sand.

 

[Sylvatica]

eyolf,

I believe you are referring to oils which will polymerize oxidatively (linseed, for instance, and boiling it will accellerate it).

That would be a very undesireable property, to look into your saw's bar oil tank after a few months and see glass-like varnish setting up in there, the oil pump permanently resinated like prehistoric amber. Saving the environment could get expensive.

 

[Stumper]

I think(don't 'know') that the reason that Canola was latched onto for enviro oils has to do with a high flash point and slower oxidation rate than corn oil etc. Of course peanut oil , safflower oil, olive oil etc are more costly than canola. I have used blended vegetable oil without problems. Stihl cautions against nonstabilized veggie oil because of the oxidizing/varnish forming qualities. It doesn't seem to be a big deal if you don't leave stuff in the tank for ages. The oil sling and spillage does harden with veggie oil but it cuts well with various solvents and V.O.C.s(ha ha) As has been pointed out-mineral oil isn't really bad. dispite all the hype about one drop contaminating thousands of gallons of water. -It may be detectable in parts per billion but that doesn't mean it is harmful. Mineral oil DOES biodegrade. This is an interesting discussion but I don't think it matters much.

 

[tony marks]

i would agree. but excuse me,, got to go spray my elbos with wd40. artritus u know.
hell my wife wouldnt even set with me at church yesterday. i jus tell folks its my new cologne.

 

[Tree Machine]

Canola and other veggies

It doesn't seem to be a big deal if you don't leave stuff in the tank for ages

That is the stated truth. I would not recommend veggie oil in the bar tank for the casual, or home use. But for us dudes who make our living we tend to keep a closer maintenence eye on our gear.

Men, I've been using various vegetable oils in my oiler tank for better than 3 years now. I began this after doing some lakeside cutting and watching the shimmering rainbow colors spread all over the surface of the water. I couldn't feel good about that. Also, every time I clean out the bar groove and clean out the sidecase, it's gonna hit my client's lawn.

I've used all the different veggie oils, basically using whatever comes in a gallon size. The worst incident was a plastic worm-drive rotor in the oiler mechanism stripped out. Since this happened three years earlier, and once three years before that(while I was a petrobar guy), I don't believe it was due to the veggie oil.

Attached is a picture of the sidecase, where I didn't clean it up for a couple weeks (kinda unusual for me to go that long). Not even an issue, as we all know this is going to happen using regular petrobar. The difference is the veggie will get cakey in here because it's a heat zone. I think in the tank it gets pretty warm, but not hot-hot, enough to initiate oxidation. By the time the tank gets really warm, it's time to refill it with cool, fresh oil. I use veggie in ALL my saws, though they're all stock versions

Costwise, there is no real cost difference between the veggies and the petrobars. Veggie oil is a bit cheaper when bought at Sam's Club in the 35 lb lug and you refill your gallon (Arizona Iced Tea has a really heavy-duty plastic gallon.)

Spilling oil, spraying oil, getting oil on you and breathing oil particulates is just part of our jobs. Keep that in mind next time you choose.

As far as gel-point of the veggie oils in cold zones, if the oil is gelled-up in the tank it'll liquidize rapidly once the saw warms up. If you're below 20 degees Fahrenheit, I would consider petobar as it won't gel, going back to veggie when it gets warmer. I have added petrobar to a half-tank of veggie, and that also works. -TM-