031AV has spark but is it enough?

[Bushmans]

Last week I posted about a guy I picked up a rototiller and snow blower for free from and I brought his non-running 031AV home for an inspection to see why it wouldn't run.
A casual use saw and it is in excellent condition.
I proceeded directly to the ignition and tested for spark by laying the plug atop the housing and pulling the cord. Nice little blue spark! Plug appears to be brand new. Next I thought fuel line.
I removed the fuel line from the tank and inspected it. Clean and no apparent holes/cracks. Even put some compressed air to the hose while holding my finger on the end. Filter also checks out. I proceeded from there to the carb. A quick tear down on the carb, cleaning with carb spray, removing idler screws and spraying out jets. Seems clean. Could use a kit as diaphragms are iffy. Impulse hose appears weak and squishy. I did not remove to check for leaks.
I put it all back together and nothing. This did not surprise me as I believe it needs a fuel makeover. New line, filter, impulse, carb kit. I popped in here to do a quick search and learned all about filter foam dissolving and diaphragms going bad and had it chalked up to a fuel delivery problem when I read to try gas in the cyl. or carb. I figured it best to try that so I was sure of the problem before handing the saw back to the guy.
When I pull and pull I would expect it to flood out but it doesn't which leads me to believe the carb is clogged, diaphragms plugged, screen plugged etc. After the search here is when I tried the gas in the cylinder/carb and still can't get it to fire or even pop.
The redneck compression test is good. Hold by the cord and it stays up.
Is it possible that I don't have enough spark? It sure seemed strong to me. I've tried the plugs from my saw and no go either. I removed the two screws and cleaned the ignition module and made sure the magnetized parts were clean and still magnetized. All the wires seem ok.
If I could just get it to fire momentarily I could narrow it down to fuel delivery.
Am I doing something wrong?
There is no visual damage to the either side of the piston. Got me baffled at this point.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. This guy is gonna let it rot on the shelf before he fixes it I think and I would like to help him either fixing it or at least getting it sold for him.
Thanks in advance,
Bushman

 

[a. palmer jr.]

One additional thing I do is squirt a small amount of fuel mix (half a teaspoon full) directly into the spark plug hole. That should tell you if the ignition is strong enough to start it and the compression is good enough. DO NOT USE STARTING FLUID.

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

From what I gather reading Acres site Model Profile: 031 AV is that saw has points. The ignition timing is set at: 2.0 to 2.3mm (0.008 to 0.009 in.) before TDC

Might be something to check?

Check flywheel for correct position on crankshaft. You will get spark just at the wrong time if it's out of position.

 

[Bushmans]

From what I gather reading Acres site Model Profile: 031 AV is that saw has points. The ignition timing is set at: 2.0 to 2.3mm (0.008 to 0.009 in.) before TDC

Might be something to check?

Check flywheel for correct position on crankshaft. You will get spark just at the wrong time if it's out of position.

It has a standard electronic ignition module. The same style I have on my 029 and 044. I'm not a terminology guy when it comes to chainsaws and know almost zilch about points and the rest but I'm pretty sure this does not have points. here is a pic of what it looks like. not exactly but you get the point.
View attachment 233451

Please correct me if i'm wrong. I tried fuel in the spark plug hole and it still won't fire.

 

[ozflea]

Is the spark an electric blue or a weak and pale yellow if it blue it fine if its the other well .................

 

[Bushmans]

Is the spark an electric blue or a weak and pale yellow if it blue it fine if its the other well .................

It's blue and plain as day in my garage with well lit conditions. That is why I am so baffled. A squirt of fuel in the spark plug hole should get me something I would think. I tried it with the piston at top and bottom to no avail. This thing is making me look more stupid than I already am.

 

[russhd1997]

From what I gather reading Acres site Model Profile: 031 AV is that saw has points. The ignition timing is set at: 2.0 to 2.3mm (0.008 to 0.009 in.) before TDC

Might be something to check?

Check flywheel for correct position on crankshaft. You will get spark just at the wrong time if it's out of position.

Some of the later 031's had electronic ignition.

It's blue and plain as day in my garage with well lit conditions. That is why I am so baffled. A squirt of fuel in the spark plug hole should get me something I would think. I tried it with the piston at top and bottom to no avail. This thing is making me look more stupid than I already am.

It is possible that you have put too much fuel into the cyl and it is now flooded. It sounds like you have a good spark and good compression. Does it have a screen in the muffler and is it plugged up?

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

It's blue and plain as day in my garage with well lit conditions. That is why I am so baffled. A squirt of fuel in the spark plug hole should get me something I would think. I tried it with the piston at top and bottom to no avail. This thing is making me look more stupid than I already am.

Well....so much for info about ignition type on the net!

When you take the spark plug out is it wet? You may have too much fuel in the engine. If the plug is wet. Take it out, pull the rope a few times, and let the saw sit for a few hours so the fuel can evaporate. Put just a little of mixed fuel into the plug hole, put the plug back in. Give it a few pulls. It should fire.

Another thing you could try is to just hold the throttle wide open (to get more air into the combustion chamber), choke off, and give it a few pulls (4-8 like you mean it)....it might fire up for you.

It might be something simple.....or...???

 

[McCulloch1-52]

My 031 AV has points,if it has points clean them and gap them.

 

[McCulloch1-52]

I think the one's with electronic ignition are called 031 AV electronic it should say it on the plate on the cover, I think the old stihl's they put electronic after the model but I could be wrong.

 

[russhd1997]

I think the one's with electronic ignition are called 031 AV electronic it should say it on the plate on the cover, I think the old stihl's they put electronic after the model but I could be wrong.

Some of them did say electronic on the plate on the cover. Others had 031 AVEQ (Anti Vibe Electronic Quick-stop) on the plate. I'm not sure if those had electronic in script on them too or not.

 

[Saw Dr.]

Points or electronic, the spark has to be at the right time. You'll need to pull the flywheel either way (GET THE RIGHT PULLER) and see what is behind there. If it sparks and everything else checks out, my money is on missing or sheared flywheel key. If you discover points while in there, then you'll need to address them. Points are easy, and there are plenty of folks here to help. I am glad more folks do not know how to deal with them, as I get alot of easy-fix $$$ that way. I may start a thread on the 031 ignition "mod" I found yesterday. Not pretty.

 

[Bushmans]

Thanks for the help so far. The screen was removed by the owner but it wasn't plugged anyway. I could be putting too much fuel in so I'll try that again this morning.
If that doesn't work I'll pull the flywheel and check the keyway.
This is an 031AV.

 

[sefh3]

You need 3 things to happen for an engine to run. Spark, fuel, and compression.All three need to happen at the same time. It sounds like you are getting spark but it could be sparking at the wrong time. It could be on the downward stroke instead of the upward stroke. This causes you to flood and not fire. Sheared flywheel keys are know to do this. Like, SAW DR stated take a look here first. Also, pull the muffler off and take a peak at the piston. If it's scored you will not have enought compression to run good but it still should fire.

 

[Rookie1]

Thanks for the help so far. The screen was removed by the owner but it wasn't plugged anyway. I could be putting too much fuel in so I'll try that again this morning.
If that doesn't work I'll pull the flywheel and check the keyway.
This is an 031AV.

If its not been tampered with an 031AV is points ignition. Your coil that you showed isnt the original one for it. Ill bet someone tried to modify the saw and swapped parts. Ill also bet you have great spark but the timing is way off. You need to post some pics of the flywheel.

 

[sefh3]

If it's an 031AV (AV=anti vibe) then it should be a points saw. That ignition coil is not right for it. It will produce spark but again not at the right time.

 

[Bushmans]

Well it has points. I'm usually never right anyways. Oh well time to learn something new.
View attachment 233572

Now what do I do? Give it back to him and tell him he's screwed?

 

[sefh3]

Well it looks like you pulled the flywheel off. How was the key way?

 

[Bushmans]

Well it looks like you pulled the flywheel off. How was the key way?

key way was intact. I have run a clean cloth between the points but I have no measuring device to set it to .016 I believe. Any suggestions?
Thanks

 

[Saw Dr.]

You can't set it to .016 without the factory tool anyway. The points lobe is on the hub of the flywheel. Stihl used to sell a cam just for setting 030/031/032 points, but it is NLA. You will have some trial and error ahead of you. I will look up the edge gap. There is a spec where the points start to open in relation to the N pole on the flywheel. That is the way you'll have to figure it out without the tool, or go 2.3mm from TDC, which is probably less accurate than the edge gap. If you have an Intertec manual, it is spelled out there.