034 helicoil job

[andrethegiant70]

Hey folks!

I've got a decent 034 on my hands.. nice saw but it needs a few things, one of them being a fix for a yanked out bar stud. After doing some searches, I have to admit the time-serts sound fool-proof, but for a one-time use I can't justify the cost. A helicoil seems like the reasonable solution. I would need a full installation kit in addition to the insert. Can you folks give me any clues as to the size of the tap and insert required?

Also, it does seem that there are perfectly good threads a little deeper in the stud hole.. it almost looks like they cross threaded a stud installation. Do they sell longer studs? That would be a REALLY easy fix!

Thanks!

 

[Lakeside53]

The stud screws into the casing a long way - and all the way to the interior of the oil tank and flush with the tank surface, so there is no more thread to be had. A standard helicoil will not be long enough to go the entire distance. BTW, the case is a tight thread class, so standard hand taps are often too loose.

You say you can see good threads. Have you tried a new stud?

You can alway degrease the hole/stud, and if you can pull some torque, use red loctite... The book calls for blue, but you can alway heat it up to get it out.

There is always epoxy.... use a decent marine grade or JBweld.


BTW, there are some OVERSIZE studs available. Not sure it will fit the 034 (it should...), but the 056 has one that's 10mm in the casing (up from 8). 1115 664 2405

 

[andrethegiant70]

Hmmm.... I sure do like the idea of NOT doing a helicoil for the first time on a saw I don't want to mess up. I'll try a new stud with locktite. Do you have suggestions for cleaning out the buggered threads so I can get the stud to seat properly? I'm beggining to feel pretty sure that since only a portion of the threads are destroyed, they cross-threaded a new stud and gave up halfway. Trying to get the new stud in striaght will now be the challenge. Lakeside, I've noticed that you give TONS of advice.. much appreciated on this end!

 

[olyman]

there is another way-- i did this on my own saw--it got rolled on by a tree!!!!!!!!!!!! i drilled the hole out--for a 1/2 coarse thread ---and you have to hit this on center as close as possible---which i dont remember know the drill size--and i used coarse for better thread engagement. After i had the hole threaded--i took a grade 5 bolt--and drilled the exact center of the bolt for the size metric tap for the bar stud--then threaded the inside of the bolt----i then put red loctite on the bolt--and in the hole---and threaded the bolt in---the next day--i cut the bolt off--and ground it flush with the case--anddddddddd---i ground slowly so as not to get the red loctite toooo hot---then cleaned up the stud threads again with the tap--and threaded the new bar stud in--with a dab of blue loctite on it---if it breaks out now--new case half---hope no more wayward trees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[andrethegiant70]

Yes! I think I saw you mention this on another post! I figured you must have done all this with a drill press? Sounds you really have to nail it! I thought this was a really cool way to go about but I also thought I'm just the guy to screw it up! I will probably try the simple stuff first to see if that works... but then.. you may have to hold my hand for the big surgery!

 

[olyman]

nope--no drill press---your drilling magnesium--soft---but---you may have to hold the drill real steady--and with force--to keep the drill centered till you get into good material--though a drill press would help--there isnt a flat surface for the drill to set on the recoil side--------------------unless you took the recoil off--and set it on some short boards or pieces of bar stock--we aint talking .0000001 accuracy-----

 

[Lakeside53]

Hmmm.... I sure do like the idea of NOT doing a helicoil for the first time on a saw I don't want to mess up. I'll try a new stud with locktite. Do you have suggestions for cleaning out the buggered threads so I can get the stud to seat properly? I'm beggining to feel pretty sure that since only a portion of the threads are destroyed, they cross-threaded a new stud and gave up halfway. Trying to get the new stud in striaght will now be the challenge. Lakeside, I've noticed that you give TONS of advice.. much appreciated on this end!

Yes, it's easy to clean out the old threads - just buy an M8 tap (check the pitch against your stud) from your hardware store. You can also get tricky and grind two grooves in an M8 bolt then wind it in.... but better to just spend $5 and buy a tap. Make sure it starts in the same threads (the "usually" do) as the orginal or you'll cut two thread paths.

The prior guy probably tried to insert the stud in upside down and then messed the threads with the stud shoulder. I see this all the time...

Use carb cleaner (spray can) to degrease the threads before loctite.

 

[andrethegiant70]

Based on the damage, that could EASILY be the case. I guess I'll try not to do THAT. Sounds like this might not be such a difficult fix.. I sure appreciate the assistance!

 

[vegaome]

Howdy andrethegiant70,

You can make a sand bag real easy and use that to steady akward shaped parts on a drill press. If you go that route. Good luck getting her fixed.

v/r

Mike

 

[olyman]

also--make sure theres nothing real close if you go the route i said--as when drilling the large hole--that you dont dril linto something else--!!!!!!!!! i checked this first on mine real close!!!!

 

[Stihl #1]

Seems like I posted this before, but anyway, there is an oversize stud for the 034 and other saws where the stud screws into alloy:
An oversize collar screw, part number 1115 664 2405, is available for alloy housings that have been stripped. The damaged hole will need to be drilled out to 8.5 mm (0.335” or letter drill Q) and rethreaded with a 10 mm by 1.5 pitch tap. Coat the threads with Red LOCKTITE 262, or equivalent, and install with the stud remover or use the double nut method. This collar screw is for the 3003 bar mount.

There is also a couple of oversize studs for the plastic housings as well:
An oversize collar screw, part number 1123 664 2405 is available for the 1123 series saws (021, 023, 025, MS 210, MS 250). It will also work on the 1130 (MS 170, MS180), and 1132 (MS 191T).Coat the DG 9 thread of the new collar screw with Red LOCKTITE 262, or equivalent, and apply it squarely to the bar mounting face. Install it by carefully jamming two nuts together on the threads. This repair may work on other models of saws with polymer housings that use the 3005 bar mount.
1127 664 2410 DG 9 is for the larger 3003 bar mount.

 

[olyman]

well--there you have it andre--a much faster way of repairing your saw!!!!!

 

[Lakeside53]

Didn't I say that in post #2???

 

[andrethegiant70]

You guys are fab! It's going to be about a week before I can spend time on it... I will let you all know how it goes! I guess I better get this right!

 

[olyman]

lake--i didnt read no 2 post closely--and neither did some others--sorry--wasnt trying to demean you---oly

 

[stihltech]

helycoil

I have always used 2 helicoils to give the stud full threads.
But, we all no what a hack I am.

 

[EastwoodGang4]

This is great!!

This site is fantastic.... I have had the exact same problem with the bar stud pulling out of the case! I really didn't want to helicoil it....I hate helicoils. But all you guys' great advice and suggestions brought light to the magic "repair" stud. Thanks!!!!!

 

[Lakeside53]

lake--i didnt read no 2 post closely--and neither did some others--sorry--wasnt trying to demean you---oly

Ha, I make the make the same mistake about thrice a week!

 

[andrethegiant70]

Here's how it went.....

Hi, peeps! I thought I'd pop this thread open again to thanks all who contributed to the rehab of my 034. The bar stud hole was so beat up I took Olyman's advice which included creating a steel sleeve, and drilling it and tapping it for a new bar stud. The result appears to be bulletproof. After that I cleaned out the oil tank and changed out the oiler (PITA) which blew out on the last guy 'cuz HE didn't clean out the oil tank after he screwed up the stud hole.

Pics 1 and 2 are of creating the sleeve.., red locktite holds it in

Pic 3 is tapping for the stud

Pic 4 is the money shot!!

Pic 5 is my wife in a really cool old alligator Juniper. Thought you guys would like the tree as much as I did.

Thanks again!

 

[Lakeside53]

Nice job! Great pic number 5!!