Those were demonstrated in the video where the you tuber fabricated a fitting to go in the spark plug hole to hook the tubing of the vac tester to and the rubber was for blocking off/sealing the carb and exhaust ports.
036 - Does this mean what I think?
- Thread starter fields_mj
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Once you have made the investment in tools and supplies, you'll be set for the next saw that needs attention. If you don't think there will ever be a "next saw", then find someone else to work on your saw. I have put my test equipment and tools to good use many, many times, and I enjoy the challenge. Currently I have about 25 running saws, almost all of which run because I made them run! If you don't have the passion, find a different hobby. Just my 2 cents. O
Exactly.
BTW Onlooker, I thank you and thank all y'all in here who I have learned from over the years.
I got my first saw in 1994. My first 026. I think mine is a smaller cousin to @fields_mj 036 and could be tested the same way.
In my case, I was having running and starting issues maybe 10+ years ago. This began my learning process of just how do saws work, and how to make sure of the WHY they may or may not run right. Mostly I learned how to check to make sure my saw does not have any condition that may cause it to self destruct while I am thinking it is working perfectly and really may not be.
From my research, I learned all about how compression and vac can cause lean scenarios and scored cylinder/pistons. I also learned how fuel starvation can happen, which turned out to be the issue with my 026. After 20+ years of occasional use and not properly draining the PUMP fuel, my fuel lines, impulse line etc got gummed up, as did my carb. All new lines, filter and OEM carb did the trick.
I think that our point is, YEAH, a new piston may cost $30, or a new piston and cylinder for " more damaged" units, might cost $80-$200 plus any gasket costs etc, then what? Take the chance that the saw doesn't have bearing seal leaks and the rebuilder doesn't piss away another $30-$200 and do it again and again, until he learns that a little $$$, some air and soapy water go a long way in "saving money" in the long run?
thompsoncustom
ArboristSite Guru
tho being able to do a pressure/vac test would be a good tool to have I wouldn't in this case since is obviously not a lean seize and most likely just carbon scoring.
Gotcha. As far as the pop-up, its just a wish, not a need. I cut my own firewood and I do some disaster relief work. An 036 is my tool of choice for cutting anything bigger than 6". I bought the saw used and in good shape for $200 around 2009, and that shop had a couple of 034 supers in similar condition for $185 at the time. I kick myself later for not buying both of them. Regardless, from my perspective IF the piston and cylinder were both shot, the saw is not worth the $350 it would cost to buy a new OEM top end.
If only the piston needs replaced, that would be another story. I'd have to check with one of the local dealers to see what an OEM replacement would cost. I've spent 6 years working as a general machinist. So long as I can sketch up what I wanted modified on a new piston, I could get the work done for free. That said, there's no way I'd pay the going shop rates (north of $200/hr) to have a machine shop modify a piston for me. As I understand it, once I have the piston cut, I would need to delete my gasket in order to actually get the compression back up. Once I delete the gasket, I've changed the timing and need to have my ports adjusted to bring everything back in time. I've always resisted the urge to have one of my saws ported, or even to try to do the work myself mainly from a cost vs benefit perspective. I run 18" bars on most of my saws, and that's enough to cut almost everything in 1 pass, and a 60cc saw with a muffler mod has plenty of power to pull an 18" bar. Its one thing to gut a muffler and add another hole to it, but as soon as we start talking about changing the timing I've crossed a threshold where I'm paying to play a game that I don't have the time to learn how to play. So rather than pay for an OEM piston and have it cut which would then necessitate porting the cylinder (more $$ I don't want to throw at the saw), I'd be better off with an AM popup piston that would give me the increased compression without requiring the additional work and cost. Is a Hyway piston as good as a Stihl? Probably not. Is there much of a difference? Probably not.
The current piston is the original OEM.
My game plan at this point is to get the saw cleaned up, and then pull the cylinder and see what everything looks like. If the cylinder is in reasonably good shape, I'll clean it up. I'll likely post some pics here to get input from others because I don't have a good reference point on what can be cleaned up and what can't. I can see the piston and rings have some scoring on them. I'll see what they look like when I get it apart. If the damage is pretty much limited to what I can already see through the exhaust, I'm guessing the piston is also salvageable. Just needs new caber rings, and hone the cylinder (which means I'll need to buy the hone). Again, I'll post pics here to get input from people that have a better reference point than I do. If the top end is deemed bad, I don't mind spending $100 for a decent AM top end, but at $350 for a new OEM top end, the only feasible option for ME would be that it becomes a parts saw and I buy an AM clone that's already been ported for about $100 more than the cost of the OEM top end kit.
Full transparency, I already have multiple grinders. I don't remember if I still have any sheet rubber or not. While I don't have a bad innertube hanging on the wall, I do have one on one of the kids bikes that needs replaced
And I keep at least one package of JB weld around at all times along with a couple packages of Devcon Liquid Steel because I never know when I might want to bed another rifle action. I would still like to err on the side of caution given the age of this saw.
You and other more skilled techs may advise otherwise ( I make no claims to being a pro). However, isn't a simple test of the crank seals worth the peace of mind afforded by a vac and pressure test?
For me, on this particular case, and since I don't already own the tools, its a flip of a coin. I know I should get the tester. I just have so many tools that I'm WAY past the point of having a place to store all of them. There's an above average chance that the next time I "need" it, I wouldn't be able to remember where I tried to store it and would end up having to buy it again. There is a down side to knowing how to do a lot of things. You need more space to store all the tools and do all the work, and space is something that I'm limited on until I can come up with the $$ to build a garage/shop/barn, which comes AFTER I come up with enough money to do a major kitchen remodel, which comes AFTER I come up with enough money to replace my existing daily driver that is about to pass 1/4 million miles and probably replace my 2000 F350 because it has rusted completely away.
Gotcha. As far as the pop-up, its just a wish, not a need. I cut my own firewood and I do some disaster relief work. An 036 is my tool of choice for cutting anything bigger than 6". I bought the saw used and in good shape for $200 around 2009, and that shop had a couple of 034 supers in similar condition for $185 at the time. I kick myself later for not buying both of them. Regardless, from my perspective IF the piston and cylinder were both shot, the saw is not worth the $350 it would cost to buy a new OEM top end.
If only the piston needs replaced, that would be another story. I'd have to check with one of the local dealers to see what an OEM replacement would cost. I've spent 6 years working as a general machinist. So long as I can sketch up what I wanted modified on a new piston, I could get the work done for free. That said, there's no way I'd pay the going shop rates (north of $200/hr) to have a machine shop modify a piston for me. As I understand it, once I have the piston cut, I would need to delete my gasket in order to actually get the compression back up. Once I delete the gasket, I've changed the timing and need to have my ports adjusted to bring everything back in time. I've always resisted the urge to have one of my saws ported, or even to try to do the work myself mainly from a cost vs benefit perspective. I run 18" bars on most of my saws, and that's enough to cut almost everything in 1 pass, and a 60cc saw with a muffler mod has plenty of power to pull an 18" bar. Its one thing to gut a muffler and add another hole to it, but as soon as we start talking about changing the timing I've crossed a threshold where I'm paying to play a game that I don't have the time to learn how to play. So rather than pay for an OEM piston and have it cut which would then necessitate porting the cylinder (more $$ I don't want to throw at the saw), I'd be better off with an AM popup piston that would give me the increased compression without requiring the additional work and cost. Is a Hyway piston as good as a Stihl? Probably not. Is there much of a difference? Probably not.
The current piston is the original OEM.
My game plan at this point is to get the saw cleaned up, and then pull the cylinder and see what everything looks like. If the cylinder is in reasonably good shape, I'll clean it up. I'll likely post some pics here to get input from others because I don't have a good reference point on what can be cleaned up and what can't. I can see the piston and rings have some scoring on them. I'll see what they look like when I get it apart. If the damage is pretty much limited to what I can already see through the exhaust, I'm guessing the piston is also salvageable. Just needs new caber rings, and hone the cylinder (which means I'll need to buy the hone). Again, I'll post pics here to get input from people that have a better reference point than I do. If the top end is deemed bad, I don't mind spending $100 for a decent AM top end, but at $350 for a new OEM top end, the only feasible option for ME would be that it becomes a parts saw and I buy an AM clone that's already been ported for about $100 more than the cost of the OEM top end kit.
Full transparency, I already have multiple grinders. I don't remember if I still have any sheet rubber or not. While I don't have a bad innertube hanging on the wall, I do have one on one of the kids bikes that needs replaced
To add a bit of more light to your situation and compare it to 2 or more saws I have ( ones I bought WELL USED) off an old timer. before you tear your saw down farther ( like pulling the piston and cylinder off. You may get enough of a story by removing the exhaust and intake boots to look inside. See if you can get good pics for us or at minimum, get a good idea where any scoring and how deep it might be inside the jug. It is possible that you may or may not even need a new piston or cylinder. Depending on how badly damaged, you can possibly get it running reliably with some polishing and a set of new rings. However, if it has had any play in the crank ( worn bearings etc) or air leaks ( which we previously mentioned testing for) I would still "suggest" disturbing as little of the condition that the saw is currently in so that the source of the issue can be systematically diagnosed.
Anyone else feel like some good pics inside the jug intake and exhaust are a good start and take it from there?
Fields, you are a lot like my scenario.
Man, I wish I had an F350 even a rusted one. Is it Diesel? I have a pretty rusted F250 from 1998 Gas 351 with about 337k miles on it. It needs brake work and likely could use all new timing set since the last one was done 200k ago.
Gotcha. As far as the pop-up, its just a wish, not a need. I cut my own firewood and I do some disaster relief work. An 036 is my tool of choice for cutting anything bigger than 6". I bought the saw used and in good shape for $200 around 2009, and that shop had a couple of 034 supers in similar condition for $185 at the time. I kick myself later for not buying both of them. Regardless, from my perspective IF the piston and cylinder were both shot, the saw is not worth the $350 it would cost to buy a new OEM top end.
If only the piston needs replaced, that would be another story. I'd have to check with one of the local dealers to see what an OEM replacement would cost. I've spent 6 years working as a general machinist. So long as I can sketch up what I wanted modified on a new piston, I could get the work done for free. That said, there's no way I'd pay the going shop rates (north of $200/hr) to have a machine shop modify a piston for me. As I understand it, once I have the piston cut, I would need to delete my gasket in order to actually get the compression back up. Once I delete the gasket, I've changed the timing and need to have my ports adjusted to bring everything back in time. I've always resisted the urge to have one of my saws ported, or even to try to do the work myself mainly from a cost vs benefit perspective. I run 18" bars on most of my saws, and that's enough to cut almost everything in 1 pass, and a 60cc saw with a muffler mod has plenty of power to pull an 18" bar. Its one thing to gut a muffler and add another hole to it, but as soon as we start talking about changing the timing I've crossed a threshold where I'm paying to play a game that I don't have the time to learn how to play. So rather than pay for an OEM piston and have it cut which would then necessitate porting the cylinder (more $$ I don't want to throw at the saw), I'd be better off with an AM popup piston that would give me the increased compression without requiring the additional work and cost. Is a Hyway piston as good as a Stihl? Probably not. Is there much of a difference? Probably not.
The current piston is the original OEM.
My game plan at this point is to get the saw cleaned up, and then pull the cylinder and see what everything looks like. If the cylinder is in reasonably good shape, I'll clean it up. I'll likely post some pics here to get input from others because I don't have a good reference point on what can be cleaned up and what can't. I can see the piston and rings have some scoring on them. I'll see what they look like when I get it apart. If the damage is pretty much limited to what I can already see through the exhaust, I'm guessing the piston is also salvageable. Just needs new caber rings, and hone the cylinder (which means I'll need to buy the hone). Again, I'll post pics here to get input from people that have a better reference point than I do. If the top end is deemed bad, I don't mind spending $100 for a decent AM top end, but at $350 for a new OEM top end, the only feasible option for ME would be that it becomes a parts saw and I buy an AM clone that's already been ported for about $100 more than the cost of the OEM top end kit.
Full transparency, I already have multiple grinders. I don't remember if I still have any sheet rubber or not. While I don't have a bad innertube hanging on the wall, I do have one on one of the kids bikes that needs replaced
You don't need to buy a hone. Some wet/dry paper, your fingers, and soapy water will clean up transfer/carbon.
Seals will be in the OEM gasket set so replace those.
Unless prices went WAY up the Steal dealer won't be asking $350 for a P/C kit, closer to $200.
The MightyVac is a good investment if you do mechanics.
My 036 saws are my favorites for firewood.
Might even get a good used OEM cyl on here.
Chances are the cylinder is fine if it don't get more abuse, won't know about piston until it's off.
30 year old saw needs to have all the rubber parts/filters/carb well inspected and/or replaced. I learned that when I started fixing 038s I got for free.
I still have two NOS/OEM 034 cylinders in the trading post, but nobody wants the 46mm ones.
Somehow I saw this post coming about the hone.
I was looking at the other recent 036 thread by Burchie and came back,
Some fellas have made mandrels from a nail to hold abrasive emery paper, scotchbrite pads and use a variable speed drill to hone/polish a cylinder too.
Here is one fella who does have the foot operated flex shaft hand piece unit which is not necessary but nice to have.
And here is one with a drill and emery and drill and scotchbrite. I am doing some quick searches so excuse me if anyone sees any bad practices. My feelings won't get butthurt if anyone sees anything adverse.
I have a box of them, lol, all have some transfer that needs cleaning.
You can get block off wedges for $8 that work on most saws
I was thinking of the hone to cross hatch the cleaned cylinder to allow the new rings to seat. You're right thouth, I'm sure there are more cost effective ways to do that, especially for a 1 off.
I priced an OEM 48mm P/C about 5 years ago and they were over $300.
Just find another saw.
I know that I have posted a bunch, but if I were you, I would start by pulling the exhaust ( I am tired, up since 2 AM) which I presume you did for the first pics. Then pull the intake and get us some more and better pics inside so we can see both the cyl and the piston.
