2 climber crew

[FBerkel]

We were veering off into this topic over in the residential forum, and I think it merits viewing on this one.

I think 2 climber crews are not only safer than climber/groundman crews (for purposes of aerial rescue), but more profitable. I also believe it is possible to start out a company that way, at least in my area, if you market aggressively enough.

Any thoughts?

 

[goboilers]

Fred
I agree. The company I work for employs two crews each with two climbers and two groundmen. We also have an additional groundman that floats between the two crews. Our old set-up was three man crews with one climber. We have increased productivity with our new arrangement.

 

[UNBforester]

A few years back I was paired up with another climber to do some residential work. The boss never had a two climber crew before. The two of us were able to fly through these jobs and get more production than a three man (1 climber and 2 groundmen) crew. Mostly due to the fact that the salesman only bid these jobs for a 1 climber system.
It really just depends on how the job is bid out. The extra $ paid to the second climber is definitley worth the production.

Safety wise its the only way to go.

Dave

 

[Koa Man]

My old crew consisted of 2 climbers, myself and another climber who was very good, and 1 groundman. The groundman could also climb and prune coconut palms very fast, but did not know how to use ropes for climbing. That was the best crew I ever had. On jobs where stuff would be getting on the ground fast, one would climb and two would work the ground. All would work when needed. Two climblers and one groundman is best for fine ornamental pruning, time consuming work in the tree but very little brush on the ground. Unfortunately, both eventually moved out of state. My current crew is me climbing and 3 groundmen. Two of the groundmen can also trim coconut palms, which is where I really need the extra help. One of them also shows great potential as a climber. He is 19, catches on fast, and already did a 120 ft. removal with me coaching him along the way.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Two climbers is a real good idea. Not only does the work get done more efficiently, but it is a great way to train climbers. This is how I learned the bulk of my skills. I realize that at some point the cord has to be cut and let the climber figure things out for himself. It is a good way to learn.

 

[rborist1]

:Eye:

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I was paired with a climber on a crew once, but he was vastly suppierior to me in every way, which made me look bad. I figured I could study his work habits and, with hard work, become a better climber, or... I could just drop a tree on him.
I won't say what I did, other than to say that I'm against two climber crews, and once again the best climber at my company.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by Rich Hoffman
Two climbers is a real good idea it is a great way to train climbers.

Definitely. Nothing's worse than having to yell directions from the ground, so why not get up there? My best jobs have me in the harder tree and an apprentice doing the easiest part of it, or in a nearby easier tree. Unlike many I often charge by the hour and encourage the client to help on the ground. they value the work more after that experience.
Everyone does ground work--morale can go down the toilet if one guy's stuck there all the time and gets no help.
It's great when young climbers advance, and the pits when older climbers crumble. I had one 40-year old progressing slowly for 8 months then lose his nerve. Now he's sold all his gear and is delivering pizzas.

 

[rumination]

Back when I used to do residential tree work I always worked on two climber crews. Almost always the other climber was more experienced than I was, which meant that I got to learn a lot, but he usually ended up doing a bit more of the climbing work.

The best crew I worked on had two climbers and two groundies. The other climber was a real speed demon, a great climber. We would drop stuff while the groundies dragged stuff and then would come down and help chip and cleanup. On smaller jobs we would split up one climber and one groundie. The flexibility to mix it up kept us efficient.

Now I'm the only climber at the botanical garden I work at. For both safety and work efficiency issues I wish we had another climber, but we don't have the funds to hire anyone else right now.

 

[SilverBlue]

Good way to train climbers heh? With such egos it's hard to find a working pair, and if there's a demand it's harder to keep them happy. (Grin) I'm just pairing such climbers like Rocky& Butch or Mass and myself... sure Mass would learn quite a bit about advanced climbing and how to use a chipper or even how to use a pole pruner properly but what happens when another company offers him 50 bucks a week more? Then you have to find another climber and start all over again.

 

[MasterBlaster]

All I know is that when it comes to trims, I miss the old days when I had a good climber up in the Big Oaks with me. We helped each other out and you simply have a better attitude knowing you didn't have to trim that 150 year old behemoth out by yourself.
Nowadays, its all on me.
But thats cool.
I CAN dig it.
But.... my equal(or close) around me would be nice.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by rumination
I wish we had another climber, but we don't have the funds to hire anyone else right now.

How about a temporary position, so I can come out on a paid vacation this January?

No, seriously! It gets cold here!

Hawaii in winter

 

[topnotchtree]

In line clearance your production is based on trees trimmed per man hour. The best crew I ran was just me and a good journeyman. A third groundman usually lowered our production.

 

[Jumper]

I have worked two climber one groundsman crews before and generally things were just OK, except it was difficult to discern who was boss. One climber would say one thing, the other another and the groundguy caught in the middle. They were OK about helping with the clean up, but at times the mess on the ground got out of hand-there is no way one person can keep up with two pruning in a condo development for eg when the truck/chipper is parked some distance away. Guess it got done quickly in the end but leaving branches all over the place as you go along is not my style. I see they are still looking for someone to work there.............

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The only downside to Fred's idea is that the employer has to pay climber labor rates for all the ground work.
It seems to me that about half of the total work we do is ground work, so it makes sense economicly to have one climber and one groundman.
That said, an employer in the service industry is really just selling labor. Higher rates, more profit.
If he can sell jobs that involve mostly climbing, then his higher rates would make sense for the customer. But trying to sell jobs that are mostly ground work would be hard because he would be undercut by crews with lower labor rates. That's not bad though, who wants to do those jobs?

 

[t6140p]

On trimming a big tree, it's nice to only look at half of the tree instead of the whole thing. I recently pruned a HUGE white oak that me and my partner were in for about 7 hours. If I was to do it myself it would have been a multiple day job...
Thank God for groundmen... I think I'll buy him a Rolex...

T

 

[rumination]

JPS,

like my boss likes to say...

We have a very active volunteer program!!

Seriously, though, I would really like to have another climber around,( or for that matter at least a groundie who knows the ropes). Some of the climbing I do is way out in our forest and if I was to get injured in a tree it could take a long time to get another climber in there to get me down.

If I had the money I'd fly a bunch of you guys out here for some tree climbing fun. Bet I'd learn a lot!

 

[SilverBlue]

let's ask Treeslayer to fly us out on his new private jet! Yah baby! that's the ticket!

 

[wiley_p]

2 climber crews

I thought this was academic if there is only 1 climber on a three man crew who helps the injured climber 80' up? I have been running 2-3 climber crews for 6 years now. Productivity is way up Large trees that would take 2 days can be done safely in 1 day. crewmen stay fresh, and it gives the employer flexibility. No more the days of being held hostage by a mediocre climber.

 

[Greg]

About 1-2 days a week I work with a climber/owner, like me, and those are always the most productive days of the week. We don't always both climb, but having two climbers I think makes the work go much faster, we both watch out for dangers, and ways to be more productive.
Greg