2159 jonsered

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kdhotsaw

Yoda
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Here's a photo of Tony Snyder's(snydert) jonsered 2159. this is the new model with the removable cover over the transfer ports. they have 20 mm security torque screws but if you remove them it really helps on the transfer porting. really nice saw
ken
 
heres a view from the bottom. the left side is untouched and the right side is almost finished. there is quite a mismatch where the barrel sits on the crankcase. it had to be matched up for better airflow the transfer ducys are enlarged and the roof of the transfers are raised.
ken
 
2159 jonnyred

The third photo is a sid view of the transfers with the side plates removed before any porting was done
KD
 
Hi Ken,
What do you think is the reason for the factory to put such an access plate on the saw? I can't imagine it was put there to help facilitate aftermarket porting jobs.
 
I would guess at four possibilities on the removable covers

1. Economy of manufacture.

2. Flexibility to change performance without retooling the whole jug.

3. They are able to achieve better performance with this design approach.

4..It has something to do with emissions.

Of course I'm just guessing. I know you intented the question for Ken.

Oh, a couple more; they intend to turbocharge the model at a later date, or it is a trick to sell saws to those who want something unique.

Actually these run real good right out of the box.
 
Yeah, Tony. I talked to Ken early (maybe a bit too early) this morning and he seemed wickedly enthused with your saw. Maybe I should think about a big brother for my 2149.
 
Awesome! I was waiting for someone to take one apart. We have sold a bunch of 2159's so far. Ken, do you think they put those transfer port covers on there to facilitate different applications with the same cylinder and different shaped covers?
Josh
 
Ken...looking great!! That job is a way easier with the right tool...lol....When I talked to the Husky service guys regarding these plates..they took me in a few circles...but hinted at the fact that it was a manufacturing cost saver......the fellow that I talked to was quite interested in why I wanted to take those covers off..once we chatted for a bit, and he understood that I knew what i was talking about he opened up quite a bit...he used to build saws himself....very good guy to know...

Tony, you will like that saw...very nice to run, and after Ken is done it will be that much better!!
 
2159 transfer plates

hello dennis,
I cant figure why jonsered went to the removable transfer plates. tony snyder had 4 0r 5 plausible reasons, I dont think it would be cheaper to build with the plates than casting the barrel complete,I dont think there gaining much on performance. it probably does help in some way on emmisions. if so then we will see a lot more husky and jonsered models with the plates. I just dont know what the advantage is.
later ken
good to have you back posting, that picture of you with rotax roberts hot saw is a good picture. looks like your getting ready to sneak up on that log. lol
 
Ken..those were my thoughts exactly..how could it be cheaper?? but this is what he hinted at...I dont know..but i like them...lol...did you notice the crown on the 2159 plate??

that Rotax is an amazing saw to run.....
 
hot saw

hi dennis,
no, didn't see any crown on the plates, must have missed it. hey dennis thats a neat picture. the round is just clear of the log. your probably secretly, as we speak, working on a 500 cc honda motorcycle motor to spring on us at next years clearwater revival
in the hot saw class.
ken
 
From the horses mouth

So I got curious about this again today....I talked to one of the techs again and he faxed me over a sheet that was printed in fall 2001..
He did say that these particular cylinders are now manufactured by themselves..

"the 359 breaks ground with our new covered port design. As with the open-port cylinders, the covered-port design is more economical to manufacture, and it acheives greater fuel efficiency and power than conventional open-port design.

Manufactured from a high pressure die casting, the 359 cylinders closed porting is achieved with a molded transfer port cover attached with one-way screws for permanent fixture."

Well..I personally dont believe for a second that those plates cant be put back on, and ken has proven that...
So, in saying that, Tony seems to have the bases covered, especially with the turbocharging:D


Ken...no...I dont think 500cc is enough...I am thinking more along "turbine" lines....
:blob2:
 
Thatz not Dennis in the Rotaxupcut" pic. Thatz hiz stuntman...Creep/Pal/Puke/Rick

Creep on loggin'
 
When I'm not playin' with chain saws, my regular job is managing the pattern dept at an aluminum mold company. Over time I've picked up a few things about casting metals and plastics, etc. While I've never seen the machinery used to cast the cylinders many chain saws use, looking at the witness lines, figuring which way various mold parts must pull to achieve the transfer ports means that any cylinder using closed transfers is going be quite expensive, requiring many cammed or toggled moveable mold parts to effect the transfers.

The 2159/359 cylinder, on the other hand will only require plugs that move in and out. Such plugs require less close tolearnces, so the mold life is longer and requires less maintenence over the mold service life. As a guess, I'm thinking they are saving 7-10% or more per part, even including costs to add the covers.

I wonder if it is merely coincidental that there seems to be much meat on the top surface of the ports and on the caps...as if the design folks were planning to massage a few of these by hand to test for better performance, then order changes for later production runs. Apparently the saw has enough pith and vinegar as it was.
 
I would venture to guess that the port plates are strickly a matter of die costs and the elimination of sand cores.

I worked with high pressure die casting (called squeeze casting) in a prior life. The closed port design WITHOUT the side plates has to be made using a consumable sand core. In this process a sand core with a special coating is placed in the die and then molton aluminum (aluminium for those north of the border) is injected into the mold and then when the part is pulled from the die the sand is shaken out producing the passage. However the position of the sand core can vary a lot due to tool and core wear. In addition there is a high cost for these sand cores and the coating that goes on them. Other issues are the sand cores are fragile and break, cyclce time on the machine is much less due to the fact that an operator must place the cores in by hand, there is also a high scrap rate for broken cores and core sand "burn in".

So the ports you see in the above photos are produced with slides that extend inward into the die and retract before the die halves are split and the part falls out. The cost of the side plates are surely cheaper than all the issues with the sand cores and they are more precise. The only potential problem with the side plates is leakage.

So thats my take on it- Costs and less expertise required to make the casting, more precise casting to boot. You just have to add the cover plates and gaskets as well as a little labor to assemble.

[email protected]
 
could this just be an attempt on the behalf of the manufacturer to drive toward lower productions costs in THE LONG RUN by having a common cylinder with different portings to offer for different models? On a mass scale one could save a fortune on tooling by sharing the base with many different models.:confused:
 
jsikkema1, I think you have hit on the main reason that this cylinder is being done this way.

I came from a career as a tooling engineer (TRW). I have been involved with in-house thermoplastic molding, but die casting was done by vendors. Obviously some of the principles are the same. It certianly would be more expensive to die cast closed ports using sand cores than straight ports that open into the crankcase where all of the detail can be in the mold.

What they have figured out to do here is to give us closed porting without much extra expense. At the same time, I'm sure they have gained some design flexibility as a bonus.

Ken, did those covers have a gaskets, or some kind of bonding material?
 
Do any of you guys with casting expiereance know if you could use the lost styrofoam casting technique on saw cylinders. Its eems like it would work better than sand or removable plates.
 
Have any of you guys seen the Stihl weedtrimmer with air injection thru removeable transfer covers? suppose to be cleaner burning, lots of potential. With that set up how about access for tune port injection? could make it CARB 3 compliant and then some. Jon
 

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