3/8 x .050 vs 3/8 x .063 Chain?

[klickitatsacket]

errolc - you might try running chipper chain in the dirty wood. It does not have the best edge as square grind chisel but the edge is way more durable and is great for cutting in dirty wood. This could save you a bundle money

 

[NWCS]

hey Errolc, a while ago i was given a loop of Stihl chipper chain that fit on my 036 pro, with the alder cutting i do on logs that have been skidded in sand.. chipper gives me a much better cut than chisel, and chipper is the only thing i can hand file worth beans, so that is a plus to me. does not seem slower to me, even dull its faster than my hand filed chisel chains (back to my earlier statement, i cant file worth beans) so i would definatly recommend at least a try with chipper

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

the cutters are rivitted to the outside of a thicker driver there for pushing it further away from center. So unless the outside edge of the cutters are taken down the same distance then the total width of the assembly has to be wider. a cutter being a certain width can be the same but you have cutters on both sides of the drivers to make up the total kurf. If you thicken and piece then the whole is made thicker. To illistrate this; what would happen if your drive links were 1" thick? How wide would the kurbe then?

Stihl chain has the same spacing of the cutters with both the .050 and .063. The .050 driver is just stamped thinner on the lower portion. The top of an .050 driver is still .063. Same with Oregon. Carlton however, uses drivers that are the same thickness top to bottom.
So if you want a thinner kerf .050, get Carlton.

 

[klickitatsacket]

Stihl chain has the same spacing of the cutters with both the .050 and .063. The .050 driver is just stamped thinner on the lower portion. The top of an .050 driver is still .063. Same with Oregon. Carlton however, uses drivers that are the same thickness top to bottom.
So if you want a thinner kerf .050, get Carlton.

so what is the deal then with .050? why even bother with making it? Does any one know it is done if it is only lower end that is thinner?

 

[klickitatsacket]

Mike your last statement was driving me nuts so I just went back and pulled several chains apart. Sure enough the top of the drivers are the same. So what gives is it the idea that there will be less contact on the driver and less friction or is it for better oiling, clean out maybe? I am wondering though what about no support at the bottom of the driver and allowing the chain to flop back and forth in the groove. Won't this wear the bar out or the chain faster and put more twist stress on the rivits? what about the flopping side to side won't this make for a wider kerf, less efficient cutting. I am confused as this just is not making any sense of why they would do this. I do not believe the grooves are V-shaped to accomodate for the tapered drivers. ???? it Mike now I am going to get a head ache dwelling on this all night. Why couldn't you just let me live in my own little world.

 

[Big Woody]

advantages

Hey Dean a couple of advantages come to mind. First a narrower bar will be lighter even though the cut width is the same. Seems they are always trying to lighten something. Also if the bar is narrower than the cutter it should give less contact between the bar and the wood. Less friction and easier cutting? The top chain should keep the bar stable as you cut.

May not be right but I'm going with it anyway.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Bar weight and cost might be a factor, steel is darn expensive, I dunno. Another subtle difference is the chain cuts the same size kerf between the two sizes, but the bar is thinner with an .050, so there is more clearance between the kerf and the bar.
Whats even funnier is that they only make .063 bar tips and rims.

 

[jokers]

Mike your last statement was driving me nuts so I just went back and pulled several chains apart. Sure enough the top of the drivers are the same. So what gives is it the idea that there will be less contact on the driver and less friction or is it for better oiling, clean out maybe? I am wondering though what about no support at the bottom of the driver and allowing the chain to flop back and forth in the groove. Won't this wear the bar out or the chain faster and put more twist stress on the rivits? what about the flopping side to side won't this make for a wider kerf, less efficient cutting. I am confused as this just is not making any sense of why they would do this. I do not believe the grooves are V-shaped to accomodate for the tapered drivers. ???? it Mike now I am going to get a head ache dwelling on this all night. Why couldn't you just let me live in my own little world.

Hi Dean,

Am I reading your statements right to surmise that you observed the drive tangs to be VEE shaped, thicker at the top of the tang that rides in the bar groove, than they are at the bottom of the tang? This is a normal wear pattern on used chain, more evident on the most worn chain of course.

What I believe Mike`s statement

Stihl chain has the same spacing of the cutters with both the .050 and .063. The .050 driver is just stamped thinner on the lower portion. The top of an .050 driver is still .063. Same with Oregon. Carlton however, uses drivers that are the same thickness top to bottom.

is saying is that Stihl and Oregon apparently both start with .063 gauge drivers, then stamp, coin, or forge the bottoms that ride in the bar groove to the desired thickness of .050, .058, or left as .063. It was neither stated or implied that the driver`s sides are parallel or not at the time of manufacture, but they are parallel, just as the bar groove has parallel sides.

The condition of unsupported drivers, v shaped in a parallel walled groove, is exactly why used chains wear out new bars so quickly, and vice versa, and why bars who have had their rails closed don`t wear nearly as long as a new bar before needing to be closed again. The consequent Vee shaping of a bar from wear is also why it is false economy to invest in .058 chains for a worn .050 bar. The drive tang may well fit in the top of the groove but it will likely have unneccessary drag on the bottom where the groove is narrower. The bottom line is that once the smaller wear surface left in the bottom of the groove is enlarged to easily accept the .058 driver, the resultant wear pattern is hourglassed with only minimal support offered at the vertical center of the groove. Wavvy, inefficient cutting ensues.

Russ

 

[geofore]

Russ, if you keep this up and bar sales are going to drop, followed by chain sales. Mismatches of bars and chains is one of the reason homeowners have such a hard time getting good at this. Next you'll have them flipping their bars on upside down every other day/use or so to get even wear patterns on the bars and extending bar life. This is sounding like you would have them doing accual maintenance on their saws like clean the airfilters too. I had a guy ask,"You mean to tell me this thing has an airfilter? Where?" He'd never had the top cover off the saw, brought the saw in to be fixxed when it quit running. Airfilter plugged solid with sawdut and dirt. I run .050 because it works best on the saws I run.

 

[jokers]

Russ, if you keep this up and bar sales are going to drop, followed by chain sales...................This is sounding like you would have them doing accual maintenance on their saws like clean the airfilters too.

Good points Geo! I don`t we have to worry too much about the average guy doing too much maintenance though.

Russ

 

[geofore]

Maintenance

Had a guy bring me his Craftsman, held together with 2 30" hose clamps wrapped around it to hold the covers and muffler on. A few nuts and bolts, a bit of blue locktite and a thourough cleaning the saw was better. I can't believe he ran it like that. He did have the right chain and bar setup but the chain lacked the touch of a file or grinder. He bought a new chain and for the same price he could have had a guide and file but then he'd have to learn how to use them and if the wife had let Harry leave home with a bit more money I could have sold him a saw. He went for the sharpen the old chain and put a new one on the saw.

 

[West Texas]

To ErrolC

I'm a sucker for a new solution to hard problems. I loved your story about cleaning the chain in a pool of water. So today after doing some serious cutting on an old old dead oak tree, I decided to fill a bucket full of water, put the bar down in it, and squeeze the throttle.

Its what you didn't say that got me in trouble. It threw up a jacktail of water all over me and the yard, and that chain turning in the water, propelled the bar right into the side of the 5 gallon bucket. Results of which are shown in the picture.

As I dried myself off, I had a great laugh. Some times the joke is just on me.

Think I'll stick to kerosene for cleaning my chains, even though its more expensive than water.

Tom

 

[dustydog72]

I never realy seen any performance difference between .050 and .063 chain. What I did before I got tools to "tighten" my bars was buy a .050 guage bar and as it wore go to .058 then .063 guage chain to get a little more life out of a bar.

 

[Lobo]

Some times the joke is just on me.

Think I'll stick to kerosene for cleaning my chains, even though its more expensive than water.

Tom

A 5 gallon pail filled with kerosene works great to clean the bar tip and chain

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

West Texas, it may sound funny, but I like to clean my saw out by dipping tip into a 5 gallon bucket of human feces. Be sure to hit full throttle and dip it in, just like you did with the water. As a safety precaution, do not wear glasses and open your mouth real wide as you dip the bar in.
Have your wife keep a camera on so we can see how well it works!

 

[smokechase II]

West Texas:
ErrolC wasn't trying to make you a sucker. In South Carolina, on Hurricane Hugo clean-up, I've used the water cleaning technique successfully.
There is so much sand in snag trunks under the bark and logs from fire ants that you can't avoid it. That sand that ErrolC refers to is, of course, highly abrasive. Running your saw periodically in the standing water that is common on the Francis Marion NF can be a real help. If you don't do that or clean your bar several times a day you'll pay for it in incredible bar and chain wear.
To keep your leg dry just hold the saw at an angle and rinse off your buddy. If you're on one of these projects in a wet world like the Marion. The small lateral water you get on your chaps isn't noticed.
One caveat to the water thing. A few seconds is enough. You don't want to get carried away and rinse the lube off your sprocket bearing.
The sucker thing I'm familiar with is splashing water when your buddy nearby is mid-thigh deep and telling him that your just calling water moccasins.

 

[klickitatsacket]

great topic guys
got a little education on assumptions that I had.

 

[jokers]

got a little education on assumptions that I had.

I think that`s a pretty common occurence for most of us, just most of us won`t admit it!

Russ

 

[SawTroll]

great topic guys
got a little education on assumptions that I had.

That goes for me too, it seems!

As I understand it now, there is no difference in the kerf width related to the choice of gauge with Stihl chain either.
That really surprises me, based on what I have read on this forum before....