300:1

[klickitatsacket]

OK, I got your attention. Nobody that I knows sells an oil that runs at recomended 300:1 YET. but with new materials and synthetic oils and maybe even new designs; it seems possible to be there in the future. My question is how many people in here would trust it. If so, is it because you trust the manufacturers recomendations? if not then Why?

What if it was an oil manufacturer that recomended it outside of the equipment manufacturer?

Here is the reason i am asking. I have it from a good source inside Stihl back in Virginia who is telling me that the new synthetic that they are selling actually runs best at 85:1 but will not tell the public this becasue it will not sell. He is also telling me that anything thicker than 50:1 is even worse for your engine than 50:1 regualr mix.

So back to the question. How would you react if a company (let's say the same people who make the stihl brand synthetic oil) came out with their own versiona nd said to run it 85:1. Would you do it or trust them?

I am saying all this, but remember I ahve been very slow to switch over to synthetics and have mostly advocated 40:1 Dino oil. The tide be a changing.

 

[computeruser]

Sure, I'd trust them...if they were 100% willing to warranty ANY resulting damage to the top or bottom end. If not, what would I have to gain by trying their "superoil"?

It isn't like oil is expensive, so I'm not reaping a substantial savings by going from 43:1 to 85:1. It isn't hard to find, either, so it isn't like having access to a reliable supply is an issue. And 43:1 MX2t seems to lubricate just fine, so far as I can tell, so what's the benefit of the 85:1 stuff supposed to be? The truth is that I don't view using less oil per gallon of gas as being a particularly important or meaningful improvement.

So I guess what it would come down to is this: the manufacturer of the new "superoil" will need to show some genuinely substantial improvement over what I'm using now to even begin to make me curious about their product.

 

[troutfisher]

Dean, do you think the engine manufacturers are under pressure to make engines that run less oil? Maybe there are tax breaks or other incentives to make cleaner engines? Oil companies may be motivated by similar things, other than the best product or performance.

 

[glenn31792]

Here is the reason i am asking. I have it from a good source inside Stihl back in Virginia who is telling me that the new synthetic that they are selling actually runs best at 85:1
Its entirely possible

but will not tell the public this becasue it will not sell.
I wonder what kind or mkting survey was done?

He is also telling me that anything thicker than 50:1 is even worse for your engine than 50:1 regualr mix.
I bet it is.

I am saying all this, but remember I ahve been very slow to switch over to synthetics and have mostly advocated 40:1 Dino oil. The tide be a changing.
Going from 50:1 to 40:1 leans the motor out. Less gas more oil – they burn different.
More oil might provide extra lube but oil burns hotter ( may cause a problem).

 

[PES+]

I learned years ago in high RPM engines that too much oil can cause all kinds of problems

The funny part is a lot of the synthetics are diluted in order to make people comfortable IE there are "fillers" to deal with peoples perception of "enough" oil

The newer synthetics for 2 strokes do work I have run them at 100 to 1 in pretty tough service and have not seen lubrication problems

I did have one guy that went a bit over 128 to one on Amsoil and he just starved the crank main bearings and the wore and got whiny. The rod bearings and piston were fine appeared new and clean no wear and with new main bearings and seals the saw is still running like new but now he runs 2 ounces of Amsoil per gallon instead of one

The original main bearings ran hard for three years before they started complaining

 

[Trigger-Time]

I have thought for awhile that the oil would do better than the 50:1
and also thought it would be hard to sell a oil that is rated at, less
say the 85:1.................But it all has just been a hunch.

I don't know crap........but a mix with less oil will have more power,
burn cleaner and cool the engine better? if it lubes enough.

And yes if a Major Oil Co. will put it on the bottle, I would try
the 85:1 ratio....Not all of my saws...just one to start with

 

[rb_in_va]

I have it from a good source inside Stihl back in Virginia who is telling me that the new synthetic that they are selling actually runs best at 85:1 but will not tell the public this becasue it will not sell.

That's just Tom trying to sell more saws.

 

[PES+]

Dean likes to wear a bigger target on his back than I do

 

[bwalker]

Dean, the question I always have in regards to high mix ratios is what advantage do they provide beyond economics?

 

[Lakeside53]

Here is the reason i am asking. I have it from a good source inside Stihl back in Virginia who is telling me that the new synthetic that they are selling actually runs best at 85:1 but will not tell the public this because it will not sell. He is also telling me that anything thicker than 50:1 is even worse for your engine than 50:1 regular mix.

Not addressing your other interesting points..

The info I got from my source inside of Stihl was that the 4-MIX engines worked best on their synthetic at the 80-85 range, but that the saws still required 50:1. They don't want to confuse the operators by changing the spec ONLY for the 4-mix... they know what will happen...

I have also consistently been told by Stihl guys I trust that richer than 50:1 is worse for the life of the saws... but when I mention this, Ben beats me up, so I just do what I think is best and ignore the rest

 

[bwalker]

have also consistently been told by Stihl guys I trust that richer than 50:1 is worse for the life of the saws... but when I mention this, Ben beats me up, so I just do what I think is best and ignore the rest

I would be interested and open to hear their train of thought on this subject.

 

[Lakeside53]

So.. way way back, when the spec was 16:1, did we have a bunch of guys balking at 32:1 or heaven forbid, 40:1???

It think it's the same issue... 100:1 isn't a stretch..

 

[Ed*L]

I know that Yamaha is currently running outboard motors at 100:1. That is pretty impressive since an boat motor is under load all the time.

Ed

 

[bwalker]

So.. way way back, when the spec was 16:1, did we have a bunch of guys balking at 32:1 or heaven forbid, 40:1???

During that time did purpose built two cycle oil exist?

 

[bwalker]

I know that Yamaha is currently running outboard motors at 100:1. That is pretty impressive since an boat motor is under load all the time.

Ed

I run over 30 of the 100:1 Yamahas. At the advice of our local service rep I run them at 75:1 using Yami oil.
My personal Yamaha 60 powered boat gets ran at 50:1.

 

[bwalker]

I might also add that unlike many things related to two stroke oil performance there is pear reviewed research that concludes that two strokes ran on less oil, make less power. The research was done on chainsaws to boot.

 

[troutfisher]

I know that Yamaha is currently running outboard motors at 100:1. That is pretty impressive since an boat motor is under load all the time.

Ed

That is a liquid cooled engine, cooled with water from the river. A cool engine will burn more fuel, and get more oil.

 

[Lakeside53]

During that time did purpose built two cycle oil exist?

At a later point in time did a 2 stoke synthetic oil exist? It's the same progression, and there are still things to be invented.


In any case... the point of this thread was "would you trust it", not "what was it made of". Claims made back in the dying days of 16:1 would likely have been met with the same nay-saying we'd get with moves to lighter ratios today. I STILL know guys that run 16:1... and every now and then I get a late saws with the same junk in it..

 

[PES+]

I might also add that unlike many things related to two stroke oil performance there is pear reviewed research that concludes that two strokes ran on less oil, make less power. The research was done on chainsaws to boot.

It depends upon the engine design and tolerences


could you share ome of these peer reviews you mention Ben?

One thing certain is that once oil has done it's job it needs to leave and be replaced with new oil....

All saws with any air filter do injest some fine particles of dust some hard and some soft and any extra oil hanging around grabs this stuff and makes (sometimes gummy and sometimes abrasive and often times both) glop that likes to stick to things like bearings and piston rings

 

[bwalker]

could you share ome of these peer reviews you mention Ben?

I no longer have access to the SAE's website, but the paper was authored by Mac.