30cc vs 50cc chainsaw for cutting 8" hardwood

[Dacha]

I tried to give you a reason in post #21. Are you here on behalf of management to make activity on this site?

How about you can push down harder on the ms261 or pull up harder if going up, or twist harder if using that technique.

I use 30cc saw and let the saw do its work. Not sure how much pushing would be effective on quite hard wood even with 50cc saw. Maybe some.

Can you reference the twist technique to some youtube video ?

Someone mentioned trolling. If you mean trolling for informarion, than you may be right, lol.

 

[Franny K]

The twist technique maybe called dogging in, for some reason seems to work better than the other ways for the battery chainsaws I have. I also like the bar vertical with the chips being sent at the ground or a little away which will need some pressure.

I guess I will add about the video which youtube suggested last night. I started it at the appropriate time in the video for this response. For like $30 they could have bought the 6 tooth 3/8lp sprocket for the Husqvarna one they must have a bar and they claimed to have two new chain loops. Then they could say they both have the same exact new chain. Kind of a dis service to the watchers not to go to that minimal effort.

 

[Marley5]

Don't understand how ms261 is going to cut faster than 35cc saw when rpms are roughly the same and not slowing down.

It's the torque and HP difference.
The cutters on both saws still have to dig in with the same amount of resistance but the 261 will overcome that resistance with much greater force maintaining rpms while creating a faster cut.

 

[Dacha]

Even more so as sharp edge on the chain starts to dull. )

 

[EastCoastGreg]

Those of us that cut a lot or are in business invest more money in the pro grade saws because more power with less overall size and weight just makes sense. It also places less wear on both the saw and user thus reducing the long term cost. If the saw doesn’t have to work as hard then there is less wear on the saw. I believe this is why many here say to buy the pro saws because they have all the good attributes.

That being said money is always a factor and so is accessibility to dealer and parts when they are needed. In your situation I would decide how much money you are willing to spend then find the best saw for your use. It also means a compromise for sure. You need to do what works for you and only you know how much weight and size you can and want to handle.

A properly sharpened chain with the right cutter angle, chisel type and “raker” depth is essential to keeping chain speed up. Also for how much the saw “self feeds”. I might anger a few people but you should never have to push on a saw to get it to cut. This doesn’t mean you can’t “lean on it” a bit, but you need a saw that has the torque to do that and a ms170 is not the saw to do that with. When I am cutting, the saw basically just pulls itself thru the wood. When it stops doing that it needs attention.

A picco chain makes a difference in speed because it cuts less width in the wood reducing the power needed from the saw, which in turn increases your chain speed. I put a non-picco chain on my top handle and tried it out. It was very noticeably slower in all the cuts, so I took it off and never use anything but picco chains on my climbing saws.

I would also buy a saw that has the same bar mount as the one you currently use, which means buying a Stihl. That way you can have different size bars and interchange them if needed.

Just some more to think about.

 

[Johnwell]

It’s been a while since I ran a 30cc class saw, so I got a husqvarna 435 out of the garage to try out against my 550xp (I know, unfair comparison, but it’s what I had on hand).

I can think of no situation where I’d choose the 435 over the 550xp.

I’ve run less ‘hot’ 50cc saws before. Those would also be preferable to the 435. Maybe a really hot 30cc would rock my world; but I think just about any 50 is way more versatile.

 

[ps_saw]

I would suggest getting into something closer to 40ci, which is a good all-around compromise saw.

I'm not "in the trade" but happen to have 38ci (Echo CS-355T Top Handle) and 50ci (Husky 550XP) options, and prefer to use the top handle for the smaller stuff. The Echo starts easier and is easily used in one hand for branches. 8" wood is right around the transition point where the larger saw excels.

Smaller saws generally require shorter bars which means less cutters and more frequent sharpening, but sharpening is relatively quick.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

For 8” wood a Stihl ms180 (unfortunately superseded by the 181 and now 182) is a perfect match.

 

[Franny K]

happen to have 38ci (Echo CS-355T Top Handle)

36cc 39mm bore 30mm stroke. 1.5 kw for the similar model on the UK website.

 

[Dacha]

Ms 212

1.8kw 38cc

Use same bar mount as ms 170.

 

[sundance]

For stuff in this size range (8"or less) I used my Echo CS-346 until it acted up.An Echo CS-352 since. I like the lack of weight and they cut fine at that size. I've got bigger when needed.

 

[fields_mj]

Don't understand how ms261 is going to cut faster than 35cc saw when rpms are roughly the same and not slowing down.

Its only <8" stuff.

One has narrow kerf one does not.

Maybe longer between sharpening on ms261.

I would really like to believe ms261 cuts way faster, but don't see the theory behind it.

First RPMs are no where near the same. IIRC, the no-load WOT rpm on a MS170 is around 8500 rpm, where as the no-load RPM on stock 261 is 14,000 rpm. Also, RPM is not the same thing as chain speed. I suspect that the 30cc power heads run a smaller sprocket in order to generate enough torque. That means that even when both saws are at the same RPM, the 30cc saw is going to have a noticeably slower chain speed.

My general advice on saws is that if you only generally turn the saw long enough to burn about 1 tank of fuel, almost any saw is fine. On the flip side, if you're normal working the saw all day long when you run it, get a pro saw sized for the work you're doing. Working the saw all day long doesn't mean that you're going through several gallons of fuel either. You may only burn 2 or 3 tanks depending on what you're actually doing. Regardless of how much fuel you burn, you have the saw in your hands for several hours. If that's the case you want to minimize the weight without sacrificing much speed in the cut. On an 8" log, a 261 may only be a few seconds faster. While that few seconds doesn't add up to more than a couple of minutes over the course of the day, you'll get a LOT more work done with the faster saw. The more you have to stand around and wait for a tool to work, the slower you're going to be at everything else as well. There's nothing wrong with that if you're just cutting an occasional rick of firewood. When you need to fell, buck, and stack 3 or 4 cords of hardwood in a day, standing around and waiting on something isn't really an option, and lugging around an extra 2 lbs of weight for no additional output will take a serious toll on your body by the end of the day. Will a 30cc saw cut an 8" log? Yup, without a problem. Will a 30cc saw buck 4 cords worth of those logs in a day, not a chance. Whether or not a 30cc saw would be able to cut enough firewood to heat a house depends on how much you need to cut and how much time you have to do it. I need to get the bulk of mine done over the course of 2 or 3 Saturdays, so those are 10 to 12 hr days for me, and a 30cc saw isn't very useful to me on those days. Cutting on a steep incline is another story though.

 

[Valpen]

First RPMs are no where near the same. IIRC, the no-load WOT rpm on a MS170 is around 8500 rpm, where as the no-load RPM on stock 261 is 14,000 rpm. Also, RPM is not the same thing as chain speed. I suspect that the 30cc power heads run a smaller sprocket in order to generate enough torque. That means that even when both saws are at the same RPM, the 30cc saw is going to have a noticeably slower chain speed.

My general advice on saws is that if you only generally turn the saw long enough to burn about 1 tank of fuel, almost any saw is fine. On the flip side, if you're normal working the saw all day long when you run it, get a pro saw sized for the work you're doing. Working the saw all day long doesn't mean that you're going through several gallons of fuel either. You may only burn 2 or 3 tanks depending on what you're actually doing. Regardless of how much fuel you burn, you have the saw in your hands for several hours. If that's the case you want to minimize the weight without sacrificing much speed in the cut. On an 8" log, a 261 may only be a few seconds faster. While that few seconds doesn't add up to more than a couple of minutes over the course of the day, you'll get a LOT more work done with the faster saw. The more you have to stand around and wait for a tool to work, the slower you're going to be at everything else as well. There's nothing wrong with that if you're just cutting an occasional rick of firewood. When you need to fell, buck, and stack 3 or 4 cords of hardwood in a day, standing around and waiting on something isn't really an option, and lugging around an extra 2 lbs of weight for no additional output will take a serious toll on your body by the end of the day. Will a 30cc saw cut an 8" log? Yup, without a problem. Will a 30cc saw buck 4 cords worth of those logs in a day, not a chance. Whether or not a 30cc saw would be able to cut enough firewood to heat a house depends on how much you need to cut and how much time you have to do it. I need to get the bulk of mine done over the course of 2 or 3 Saturdays, so those are 10 to 12 hr days for me, and a 30cc saw isn't very useful to me on those days. Cutting on a steep incline is another story though.

I agree with the good advice/experience you have shared.
Remember, the OP has access to the MS241, as he is in Europe. It can share a light 16" 3/8Picco bar&chain with his MS170 for simplicity and convenience (as we do).
I expect he will use his budget to determine whether he gets the MS212 or the MS241 (both fulfill his cutting needs very nicely IMO).

 

[Dacha]

I was just cutting today with brand new chain 3/8 picco, 0.050", full chisel. (ms170)

And it was a breeze.

 

[Dacha]

First RPMs are no where near the same. IIRC, the no-load WOT rpm on a MS170 is around 8500 rpm, where as the no-load RPM on stock 261 is 14,000 rpm. Also, RPM is not the same thing as chain speed. I suspect that the 30cc power heads run a smaller sprocket in order to generate enough torque. That means that even when both saws are at the same RPM, the 30cc saw is going to have a noticeably slower chain speed.

My general advice on saws is that if you only generally turn the saw long enough to burn about 1 tank of fuel, almost any saw is fine. On the flip side, if you're normal working the saw all day long when you run it, get a pro saw sized for the work you're doing. Working the saw all day long doesn't mean that you're going through several gallons of fuel either. You may only burn 2 or 3 tanks depending on what you're actually doing. Regardless of how much fuel you burn, you have the saw in your hands for several hours. If that's the case you want to minimize the weight without sacrificing much speed in the cut. On an 8" log, a 261 may only be a few seconds faster. While that few seconds doesn't add up to more than a couple of minutes over the course of the day, you'll get a LOT more work done with the faster saw. The more you have to stand around and wait for a tool to work, the slower you're going to be at everything else as well. There's nothing wrong with that if you're just cutting an occasional rick of firewood. When you need to fell, buck, and stack 3 or 4 cords of hardwood in a day, standing around and waiting on something isn't really an option, and lugging around an extra 2 lbs of weight for no additional output will take a serious toll on your body by the end of the day. Will a 30cc saw cut an 8" log? Yup, without a problem. Will a 30cc saw buck 4 cords worth of those logs in a day, not a chance. Whether or not a 30cc saw would be able to cut enough firewood to heat a house depends on how much you need to cut and how much time you have to do it. I need to get the bulk of mine done over the course of 2 or 3 Saturdays, so those are 10 to 12 hr days for me, and a 30cc saw isn't very useful to me on those days. Cutting on a steep incline is another story though.

First, props for a very good comment.

By the way, WOT for Stihl ms170 stock, is speced at 12500 rpm. I have found threads where people moded their ms170 with adjustible carb to 14000 rpm.

Not that i would ever mod ms170.

I fit in the category where i do cutting an occasional rick of firewood.



Regarding sprocket, ms250/251 have same sprocket as ms170.

Ms260/261 have different sprocket.
Not sure about sprocket diameter relation to ms250/170 .

According to specs ms170 has 21 m/s chain speed, ms261 has 25 m/s.

 

[sawfun]

Speed and ease of cutting have more to do with a sharp chain than eanything else. That said some saws cut way above their size. My Echo 2511t just cut 4" hardwood as fast as I could move my arm, and that with its tiny 1/4" chain. It cut 12" redwood faster than most 40cc Poulans. My 200t's will outcut a lot of 50cc saws in 8" wood. My old 026 with .325 16" bar cuts 8" wood ok, not much faster than the 200t though. Heavy as it is, my 044 is easily twice as fast in 8" wood with 3/8" and a 20" bar. And still quite a bit faster than my ported 346 with .325 18" bar

 

[Dacha]

Speed and ease of cutting have more to do with a sharp chain than eanything else. That said some saws cut way above their size. My Echo 2511t just cut 4" hardwood as fast as I could move my arm, and that with its tiny 1/4" chain. It cut 12" redwood faster than most 40cc Poulans. My 200t's will outcut a lot of 50cc saws in 8" wood. My old 026 with .325 16" bar cuts 8" wood ok, not much faster than the 200t though. Heavy as it is, my 044 is easily twice as fast in 8" wood with 3/8" and a 20" bar. And still quite a bit faster than my ported 346 with .325 18" bar

Just curious, does 044 cut as fast both on overcut and undercut, or just on overcut ?

 

[chainbrake]

30cc saw a lot lighter to swing. 50cc sure will cut the 8" faster but its not like it'll take half the time and you still have to swing the weight- even moreso if its on the ground. If that 8" wood is on the small end, tending up to 16" or more then the 50cc for sure. But if its 8" tending down to branches and twigs then I'd be on the 30cc.

• That is exactly how I do it when cutting for my own use.
  Generally:
  • I knock down 1-5 hardwoods with a 67cc Stihl.
  • Next, I use the same saw to knock down any big (8"+) branches attached to the main stems and still sticking up in the air.
  • Then, I go around all of the branches that I can safely reach with my little 30 cc 170 (cutting almost everything between 1.5 and 7 inches into lengths for either kindling or small wood).
  • Finally, I fire up the big saw again to buck what is left into firewood lengths .
  • 
    
  • If I am just cutting one tree that is 10" or less, I may just use the little 30 cc saw for the whole job. Why fuel-up and dirty-up 2 saws? The maintenance is also part of the equation.
    
• I have an old 50cc Stihl that sits as backup for either the little or the bigger saw. I also have a new 50cc husky with a narrower .325 chain than the .375 on the 67cc Stihl.. That Husky is really good for dealing with 6-16 inch trees. It is a comfortable saw with a longish handle that makes it good for balance and less-tiring manipulating around limbs sticking up in the air. For those smaller trees, it is almost as fast as the Stihl, and less fatiguing.
• I'm getting older now, so sometimes more gets done through being able to keep a steady, moderate pace as opposed to blasting through things quickly then having to take breaks more often - especially when it is hot.