372XP still available

[spacemule]

That is a good idea. Mind if I borrow your saw to do a ratio/weigh test? Don't worry, I'll start rich...

I am not looking for an argument - I just prefer facts to speculation. And I get tired of everyone blamming the government we elect for everything that is wrong. I am sure you are correct about the changes in the new saws- but a lot of it does not make sense to me. And it is to easy for rednecks like us to blame the EPA for everything and think that we would all be better off with air like mexico city. I simply do not believe that the 441 gained over a pound because of the EPA.

For example - take motorcycles. That industry is subject to heavy clean air regulation, yet technology yeilds lighter and more powerful bikes each year. I just do not understand why some of the most popular saws for Stihl and Husky are gaining weight.

I thought some of it may be in anticipation of a leaner mix required by future emission regulations- this would lead to higher operating temps and perhaps these new saws were running a more robust internal structure in anticipation of those future demands - i.e. super lean mixtures.

But neither the 440 nor the 372 had any reliability problems- and so I do not see any other reason for the increased weight. My assumption would have been that the new saws would be lighter and more powerful than my old 260p/346xp/044/460 generation.

But I have been proven wrong.

Due to the bad response most of this site had to the new Husky, I found a 372 online for my friend in Vermont today. That got me thinking about the 441- Did I want to pick up a 372 or a 440 for myself as well today in anticipation of the heavier replacement saw even though I do not need a new saw right now?

I went to my Stihl dealer this afternoon after I ordered a 372 online for my friend. The dealer knew nothing about the 441- and so I decided to wait until I can make an informed decision. Right now, I simply can not understand why one of Stihl's most important saws is gaining weight. There must be an upside- but I have no idea what it is.

It seems to me that technology should be yielding lighter / more powerful saws. I like the new air induction system, and it looks sleek- but not sleek enough to make it worth carring 460 weight with 440 power.

-Mike

As I understand it, they revamped the intake on the 372 so it does not expel nearly the quantity of unburned fuel out of the exhaust. This has nothing to do with how rich the mixture is in the combustion chamber, just changes how much blows out the exhaust unused. And yes, it is because of epa regulations. That doesn't mean that the epa hasn't done some good--it just means that the new technology will take a bit to be perfected.

I once heard it said that the last run of old technology is almost always better than the first run of new technology. Did you know that some steam powered cars would run 100 mph?

 

[Freakingstang]

That is a good idea. Mind if I borrow your saw to do a ratio/weigh test? Don't worry, I'll start rich...

I am not looking for an argument - I just prefer facts to speculation. And I get tired of everyone blamming the government we elect for everything that is wrong. I am sure you are correct about the changes in the new saws- but a lot of it does not make sense to me. And it is to easy for rednecks like us to blame the EPA for everything and think that we would all be better off with air like mexico city. I simply do not believe that the 441 gained over a pound because of the EPA.

For example - take motorcycles. That industry is subject to heavy clean air regulation, yet technology yeilds lighter and more powerful bikes each year. I just do not understand why some of the most popular saws for Stihl and Husky are gaining weight.

I thought some of it may be in anticipation of a leaner mix required by future emission regulations- this would lead to higher operating temps and perhaps these new saws were running a more robust internal structure in anticipation of those future demands - i.e. super lean mixtures.

But neither the 440 nor the 372 had any reliability problems- and so I do not see any other reason for the increased weight. My assumption would have been that the new saws would be lighter and more powerful than my old 260p/346xp/044/460 generation.

But I have been proven wrong.

Due to the bad response most of this site had to the new Husky, I found a 372 online for my friend in Vermont today. That got me thinking about the 441- Did I want to pick up a 372 or a 440 for myself as well today in anticipation of the heavier replacement saw even though I do not need a new saw right now?

I went to my Stihl dealer this afternoon after I ordered a 372 online for my friend. The dealer knew nothing about the 441- and so I decided to wait until I can make an informed decision. Right now, I simply can not understand why one of Stihl's most important saws is gaining weight. There must be an upside- but I have no idea what it is.

It seems to me that technology should be yielding lighter / more powerful saws. I like the new air induction system, and it looks sleek- but not sleek enough to make it worth carring 460 weight with 440 power.

-Mike

I am not arguing about the 441....It should be lighter if the same bottom end is utilized. I don't know if it is.

I agree, the modern saws should be lighter, but with the cost increase of metals, maybe the formula for the chemical makeup in the cases is differant yielding more weight.

about the 372, :deadhorse: Go to a local dealer and compare them. They are totally differant saws. Husky claims the Xtorq engine is more powerful. The bottom end is differant, maybe it has less magnesium amd more iron (carbon chemical makeup) Husky made the transition to provide a more powerful saw with tighter emission outputs. Whatever the reason, the saw is heavier.

 

[sawn_penn]

Now, by running the saw at the recommended 150:1 amsoil ratio, it looses 2 lbs.

While only 2lbs of metal fragments might come out the exhaust, the overall effect is much better than the paper numbers indicate.

150:1 Amsoil is IMHO one of the most underrated mixes for preventing operator fatigue.

I can walk around the forrest all day (with my saw in the back of the shed, waiting for a new jug 'n piston) without getting tired.

 

[ihbase]

While only 2lbs of metal fragments might come out the exhaust, the overall effect is much better than the paper numbers indicate.

150:1 Amsoil is IMHO one of the most underrated mixes for preventing operator fatigue.

I can walk around the forrest all day (with my saw in the back of the shed, waiting for a new jug 'n piston) without getting tired.

yep, looks like we are onto something here... We should work for the governemnt! Maybe do some post-war planning for the pentagon!!

-Mike

 

[Mr.]

I once heard it said that the last run of old technology is almost always better than the first run of new technology. Did you know that some steam powered cars would run 100 mph?

Mule I have seen a car as you describe in person. We probably competed in FPS in JR. High, if you're old enough. I believe the hydrogen solution will incorporate elements involved in those steam engines.

We use some of it in our turbo technology. Hint, Hint.

Fred

 

[ihbase]

I once heard it said that the last run of old technology is almost always better than the first run of new technology. Did you know that some steam powered cars would run 100 mph?

Your quote sums up a weakness I seem to have. On almost every product I buy, I seem to be compelled to try and buy the last of the only version before the new version comes out. Trucks? I bought the last model year of the series almost each time. Motorcycles? I bought two obsolete bikes because I liked them better than their modern replacements. Saws? Well, look at this thread...

You know, early track tractor technology was competing with steam powered cable plowing. When Cat first placed a diesel in the thier chassis, they challenged a steam outfit to a competition. The Cat folks lost! But with some time and development, the future belonged to diesel-powered track tractors.

When I look back now over car, truck and tractor models I am famaliar with- Almost without exception I consider the last run of an older series to be more desirable than the first run of the series that replaced it.

I have no idea if I ama right- My theory is that it just takes time and development to incorporate technology into a new product- and so the most evolved old technology often works better than undeveloped new technology.

Maybe a good team of horse was better than the first tractors. A car was a better bet than the first airplanes. A mechanical fuel injection pump was better than the first electronic systems. A 440 is better than the first 441??

I noticed that the vibration dapening system in the 441 is structured like a Husky system in that the carb is now fixed and the handle moves behind the carb (Husky style) and not with the carb as on my current Stihl saws.

-Mike

 

[sawn_penn]

I once heard it said that the last run of old technology is almost always better than the first run of new technology.

I definitely agree.

Technology should be picked according to one's needs. If you need reliable performance, go with mainstream products that have been on the market a while. If you just need something dirt cheap, go with old products (but be prepared for them to be unreliable.) If you need performance beyond the norm, then maybe a new product will give you that edge.

I'm not in the tree industry, but I doubt many businesses get their edge over the competition with a faster saw. Better skills, better scheduling, a piece of large plant that the other guy doesn't have, etc, would be the kind of things that improve the bottom line. Unreliable equipment would cost you money quickly - I'm guessing that this is why tree guys like 200Ts - they know that they work. Some other saw may also work, but why take the risk? The price difference is only a couple of hours of chargeable time.

In my line of work "leading edge" technologies are called "bleeding edge" technologies. Everyone wants to use them (shiny new toys) but you go broke pretty quickly if you aren't extremely selective about when to use them.

 

[shucksters]

same with me in my line of business- new products mean disaster for a couple of releases until we get the bugs worked out- so I build in upgrades
to the pricing if someone has to have the latest- that way we use that customer to work the bugs out WITH and I make a friend in the process...

 

[Freakingstang]

my 99 Silverado was a first year for the "new" bodied Chevy's. I have had numerous recalls and a few unexpected repairs due to first year changes that were resolved in couple of model years. If I had it to do again, I still would have bought it at the price I paid for it (used, 1 1/2 years old). But if buying brand spankin new, I'd think twice. That is all, for now...


-Steve

 

[SawTroll]

.... I was referring to the 441 weight in the last post. Same saw with a new air filtration system and A/V mounts, and a pound heavier? The 575 isn't the same saw/case/etc as the 372. ....

I thought that the 441 has a different crankcase and engine than the 440, and that the new engine accounted for most of the added weight.

 

[rmihalek]

The cylinder, cases and carburetor on the 575 are all unique. The goal is to get fresh air (not air-fuel mix) to scavenge the exhaust so less unburned hydrocarbons are expelled and then have the new fuel/air mix come through the transfers into a relatively clean cylinder. This takes a lot of extra plumbing to get done, hence the extra weight.

It looks like a well engineered system and the saws run pretty well. With some refinement over the next couple models, I'm sure it will be a competitive mid 70cc saw.

 

[ihbase]

The cylinder, cases and carburetor on the 575 are all unique. The goal is to get fresh air (not air-fuel mix) to scavenge the exhaust so less unburned hydrocarbons are expelled and then have the new fuel/air mix come through the transfers into a relatively clean cylinder. This takes a lot of extra plumbing to get done, hence the extra weight.

It looks like a well engineered system and the saws run pretty well. With some refinement over the next couple models, I'm sure it will be a competitive mid 70cc saw.

Great answer. Thanks.

-Mike

 

[spike60]

The cylinder, cases and carburetor on the 575 are all unique. The goal is to get fresh air (not air-fuel mix) to scavenge the exhaust so less unburned hydrocarbons are expelled and then have the new fuel/air mix come through the transfers into a relatively clean cylinder. This takes a lot of extra plumbing to get done, hence the extra weight.

It looks like a well engineered system and the saws run pretty well. With some refinement over the next couple models, I'm sure it will be a competitive mid 70cc saw.

This is absolutely correct.

Some guys don't understand how a new model can come out heavier than the one it replaces, but all you need to do is look under the top cover and the reason for the additional weight becomes obvious.

 

[woodshop]

I once heard it said that the last run of old technology is almost always better than the first run of new technology.

It struck me while reading this quote that lots of things follow this theme, not just technology. The laws they write for us even in some cases. And how many of us have bought an upgrade to a favorite software package and found it so full of bugs or features we didn't really want or need anyway, or it took twice as much space on the hard drive or it ran half as fast because it was so bloated with those new features, and so we went back to using the older version because... it works? Back to saws... I love my Husky 365, it is a pleasure to use, a little workhorse. Easy starting, lots of power for its weight. After hearing you guys though, often wish I had gotten a 372. Water under the bridge.

 

[Enginerd]

Back to the original post...

I just found a supply of 372XP saws still available. Judging by the reaction to the new saw, I thought it might be a good idea to pick up one of the old models. Do you guys agree? I do not see any advantage to the new model- am I missing something?

-Mike

I'm probably missing something here, but isn't the Jonsered 2171 the same saw as the 372XP? As far as I can tell they have all the same specs, and they are readily available.

 

[ihbase]

After hearing you guys though, often wish I had gotten a 372. Water under the bridge.

Still available:

http://www.npeco.com/


-Mike