_____Chain Experts Weigh In.....Mt. St. Helen's Chain???_____

[Philbert]

As heimannm mentioned, 'we' ran across a partial reel of it in a box at a GTG hosted by grandpatractor (March, 2009?). Grandpatractor spun some into a reel and tried it, but no one seemed overly impressed with its cutting speed. The comments in the referenced threads suggest that it was developed or promoted for other purposes, but there also appeared to be a lot of problems with it.

I doubt that 'OSHA' banned it - I used to work for OSHA and know that a lot of people blame things on them, or make other, untrue statements (e.g.: 'OSHA Approved' - OSHA does not 'approve' anything). If there was a kick-back problem, it probably got pulled due to liability concerns, or issues with the ANSI safety standards. Most likely, the market did not support it compared to other available chains.

If you get really bored some time, look up some saw chain patents via Google, and then follow back through the referenced patents. There are some very creative and unusual ideas going back a long way, along with some very ambitious claims. It's good that people keep trying new ideas, and looking for ways to improve things. Maybe this chain has a special niche where it really shines.

So I think it is great that someone tried this, and I would love to have a foot or two of it for 'show-and-tell' purposes.

Philbert

 

[Deano31]

Philbert should get a piece of chain from the OP as a prize

 

[Idahonative]

Philbert should get a piece of chain from the OP as a prize

Hahahaha. I can't argue with that. PM me your address Philbert.

 

[Deets066]

We still get pictures right?

 

[Idahonative]

We still get pictures right?

Yep, working on it.

 

[Icehouse]

Nothing to do with my knowledge of this special chain just that this is one of the most interesting threads I have ever read. Patiently waiting for pictures. Thanks Idahonative, course I'm partial to Idaho natives.

 

[Idahonative]

Pics attached! This chain has two types of teeth, one cutter and one that I describe as the "scriber" or "scorer". The way my dad explained it to me, the scriber scribed the wood and the cutter cleared it out. Made the job of the cutter much easier. You will notice that both types of teeth are filed straight (90*) with a round file. I will tell you, the scriber tooth is VERY sharp. The cutter appears to me to be semi chisel.

Some have commented on the speed of the chain. That is really missing the point of it's design. It was aggressive and cut plenty fast for wood cutters and apparently the loggers logging the Mt. St. Helens area. I vividly remember the almost "noodle like" shavings my dad's 750evl threw while running this chain. And that was with a 28" bar. If a guy can fall a clean tree and back his truck to it, it probably doesn't matter as much what chain he's using. But when you cut wood in the forest and have to use a snatch block and cable to get logs out, it matters a lot. If my dad didn't get into a rock or the ground, he could literally cut all day and that makes this chain very valuable. It's all he used in the early 80's. Many of the big red firs had deep, gnarly, dirty bark and would dull a good chain in a hurry. Not this chain.

This has been a very fun thread to be a part of. Appreciate everyone's input on a subject that has been on my mind most of my adult life. Maybe someday we will see a manufacturer produce this chain again. With modern chain brakes addressing the kickback, I don't see why not. I would be the first in line to buy some.

 

[Deano31]

I would be interested in seeing how that chain would run with modern saws

 

[CR888]

lt may be perception but the rakers on the Y cutters look pretty low like 0.40". The chain does look aggressive and well made. lnteresting thread, when discussing chain, grinders, saftey gear and electric saws it's hard to get one past Philbert. l would imagine when most folks are running full chisel cutters in the US, during fires and other abnormal conditions unless they switch to semi chisel their f/c chain would not perform well at all. The average wood in AUS will not just blunt full chisel cutters but quite badly damage them in 1-2 cuts, its just not an option.

 

[heimannm]

Kolve is the one I am familiar with. The background information I have is that this chain works especially well on dirty, sandy wood. Sharpening is easy as all of the cutters are filed at 90 degrees to the bar. I have only run it on small displacement (54 cc) saws but it cuts pretty well. Probably the most impressive part is the extremely smooth cut.

The story I heard was they did not want to produce a low kick back chain (ANSI not OSHA) and so went out of business instead. I have a couple of nice 3/8" loops that I run at a GTG from time to time.











Mark

 

[zogger]

Interesting idea and design.

Wondering if you took modern normal semi chisel and filed all the cutters 90 degrees like that, how it would cut? Just lose any point, straight across.

 

[johnny5ny]

Interesting idea and design.

Wondering if you took modern normal semi chisel and filed all the cutters 90 degrees like that, how it would cut? Just lose any point, straight across.

Not as good me thinks. Probably do well in dirty conditions though?
Pretty knarly lookin chain nonetheless-and definitely a cool thread!

 

[Idahonative]

Kolve is the one I am familiar with. The background information I have is that this chain works especially well on dirty, sandy wood. Sharpening is easy as all of the cutters are filed at 90 degrees to the bar. I have only run it on small displacement (54 cc) saws but it cuts pretty well. Probably the most impressive part is the extremely smooth cut.

The story I heard was they did not want to produce a low kick back chain (ANSI not OSHA) and so went out of business instead. I have a couple of nice 3/8" loops that I run at a GTG from time to time.

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Mark

Awesome post. I'm learning more about this chain all the time. I didn't know Kolve made different types of this chain. Your brochure would explain why my dad's chain was such a good cutter. It was the HP (High performance). I saw the "HP" on the drive links but until I read your post, I didn't know what it meant.

 

[jeff taswelder]

Me thinks someone should do a video with that chain

 

[Whiskers]

Awesome thread, it's fun for a chainsaw hack like me to drop in on discussions like this and learn a little something.

 

[zogger]

Awesome thread, it's fun for a chainsaw hack like me to drop in on discussions like this and learn a little something.

Yes, it is interesting to know there might be another design out there that really does work better than normal semi chisel in dirty wood. The patents must be long since expired, so maybe some company could reproduce it again? Perhaps a site sponsor here might have enough pull and contact with a chain company to see if this is possible. Sure seems like they could sell some if it really works significantly better.

 

[jeff taswelder]

What Zogger said

 

[Bwildered]

Very interesting chain, somehow I think it wood have a hard time cutting our hardwoods.
Thansk

 

[jeff taswelder]

I would love to try and loop on my 038mag

 

[Philbert]

If you look at the patent links I posted, you can see that the chain components are actually quite complex to produce compared to conventional chain. The profile of the 'wings' are very specific.

It would seem like you could get similar performance using the Granberg style ripping chain shown, ground to cross cutting angles. This would still provide you with two scoring cutters, and two raker cutters.

Someone who is interested could also modify a conventional chain this way.

Philbert