a general felling wedge question, simple question, complex answers =P

[Dogbyte]

the reason i say complex answer, i mean, definitively... cause im wondering, using wedges, how much lean is too much, when you need it to fall the opposite direction, or even at a 45 to the lean? I know there is no convention here, and every tree is different with too many variables to take into account, but im more interested in just picking some of those more experienced brains out there... so lets paint with broad brushes, and speak in general terms, because it does have its uses i guess. we all want to be safe and not risk injury, but its a good tool especially when used correctly and safely. So lets hear it, whats the worst lean you've seen be corrected with wedges? Maybe you got a "how not to wedge" story, lets hear that too... gimme your favorite sizes, your go-to's, your specialty wedge, ect....

 

[tramp bushler]

15° is pretty much the absolute MAXIMUM that you can correct with wedges. In very healthy timber. 10° is all I usually do. A you need several wedges to do that. Hard Head wedges are the best for a heavy lean. .
In order to get good at lifting a tree you need to wedge a lot of trees. . It's real hard to overcome side lean with wedges. If you are around stuff that can be destroyed and there is more than 8' of lean in 100' of height. Forget it. . .
Trees that need to be wedged need to be big enuf diameter so your wedges can disappear into the tree without bottoming out.

Learn to use a plumb bob. It is a real eye opener and once you get good with one is very accurate .
It is very common for cleaners to have defect in the butt. So relying on wedges can get u in trouble quick.

 

[tramp bushler]

Leaners. Its real common for leaners to have detect in the butt.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

15° is pretty much the absolute MAXIMUM that you can correct with wedges. In very healthy timber. 10° is all I usually do. A you need several wedges to do that. Hard Head wedges are the best for a heavy lean. .
In order to get good at lifting a tree you need to wedge a lot of trees. . It's real hard to overcome side lean with wedges. If you are around stuff that can be destroyed and there is more than 8' of lean in 100' of height. Forget it. . .
Trees that need to be wedged need to be big enuf diameter so your wedges can disappear into the tree without bottoming out.

Learn to use a plumb bob. It is a real eye opener and once you get good with one is very accurate .
It is very common for cleaners to have defect in the butt. So relying on wedges can get u in trouble quick.

What? Incorrect. Sorry If you know how to divide a tree into segments you can calculate how far you can correct for backlean. as an example: if you have a 50' tall tree, and the distance from the back of the hinge to the wedging point is one foot, a one inch wedge will move the top 50". If the tree were 100' tall, you could move it 100". If the tree was 6" and 50' tall you could move the top 100". On the other hand if a tree is 50' tall and the wedge distance is 2 feet, you can move the top only 25".There are pther variables involved such as wood compression, kerf compensation, etc. but
to just say 15" is incorrect, it is really basic geometry.

EDIT : I went back and saw it was degrees not inches.

 

[CalTreeEquip]

Since you're asking the question I say no lean. As you get more experience you can experiment with a leaner when you don't have anything to loose. Wedges are used to lift tree over center so they can fall safely. Not really meant for correct existing leans. Not that it can't be done, just that its real dangerous. Loggers do it sometimes but they don't have houses to hit. If you need to fell a tree against its lean professionals use a timber jack. I liked my 10 ton Tulsa pto winch for that sore of thing.

 

[CalTreeEquip]

He said 15 degrees, which seems like a lot to me.
I had a rope come-along that worked real well with the smaller trees (<60').
Use that with wedges, even better.

 

[tramp bushler]

[ya , unfortunately, I've beat over more timber than more than 90% of the people on this forum. Long devision is not something very many fallers do when it comes to putting wood on the ground. If u have enough mental acquity to do it, come beat wedges for me. Miss your calculations and you will work so hard you won't be able to talk let alone think. .

If Bob or Randy or Cody or Sam or Pac or Shaun or Blitzer ect. Wants to argue the point with me, OK, I'll listen. May even learn something. There's ALOTthat goes into falling every tree. And when a guy has fell enough hundreds of thousands of them he learns most of it. But, a guy can still learn. Just that there isn't a lot more that I WANT to learn about beating wedges. :msp_angry:

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I don't calculate either, but this is 101. If it helps him figure out what he can or can't do, it's good info for him to have. And apologies, when I first read your thread I thought you said 15" not degrees.

 

[B Harrison]

He said 15 degrees, which seems like a lot to me.
I had a rope come-along that worked real well with the smaller trees (<60').
Use that with wedges, even better.

Here is one I did in Feb. I balanced the tree first from the canopy by removing the bottom limbs on the leaning side. I didn't take measurements and did have a cum-along and rope for a back up, but was able to wedge the rope slack before the tree fell.

It was 65' tall and 30" at the stump hard wood and healthy.
I will say the lean was between 2 and 4 % so maybe 6 degrees. It worried me but it worked well. I have another tree to do at some point for a friend, more hazards involved (fence and other trees) so again I will climb it drop the bottom limbs and tie a rope for back up. I would suggest the same thing for you, eve if you don't get the rope 65% up like most will tell you, its better to be there for a back up.

Once you get wedges into a tree, you are way past the stop and call someone point, so if you aren't sure or don't have a couple like this away from obstacles call someone who does.

 

[tramp bushler]

If your gonna climb high enough to put a line in it, ya may as well take it down from the top. Unless u have a lot of trees to get down in a short time.
Wedges can lift lots, but they don't control the tree. The holding wood does that. And the face.

I've lifted a lot of good size trees that had a lot of lean. But that was cutting a strip. If I lostone its a pain,a bother and probably dangerous but not like I Tboned someones half milliondollar house.

 

[Jeffsaw]

I use the yellow 8"(?) wedges by Oregon. They are a great tool to have when felling or bucking up wood. You can make your own from hardwood like Oak or Hop Hornbeam (Ironwood), too.
I set a rope in any tree I'm not completely sure will fall where I want it to, especially near buildings and other values. Its pretty cheap insurance.

 

[tramp bushler]

If your gonna pound over any amount of timber. Get 2 12" Hard Head, 2 el cheepo 12" ( for doubling up) and a few 8" +10" . . If you don't break them or saw them up they will last a LONG time.

 

[Gologit]

But, a guy can still learn. Just that there isn't a lot more that I WANT to learn about beating wedges. :msp_angry:

Amen.

 

[newsawtooth]

If your gonna climb high enough to put a line in it, ya may as well take it down from the top. Unless u have a lot of trees to get down in a short time.
Wedges can lift lots, but they don't control the tree. The holding wood does that. And the face.

I've lifted a lot of good size trees that had a lot of lean. But that was cutting a strip. If I lostone its a pain,a bother and probably dangerous but not like I Tboned someones half milliondollar house.

Tramp,

How much lean are you comfortable over coming with tree jacks? Just curious and I will likely never have the chance to use them. I'm in the city most of the time and subscribe to your belief that "If your gonna climb high enough to put a line in it, ya may as well take it down from the top".

 

[tramp bushler]

Not any more than with wedges. But you can pick a lot bigger tree with jacks.

I've about split the back off a spruce with wedges. Don't need to do it any worse with jacks.
But jacks do take some exertion out of lifting a tree.

 

[Tree&Stump]

I leave a thick hinge that is just enough to hold up the tree but to thick to fell it, then I pull it over with the come along or winch and a few pulley blocks in a mechanical advantage. It pays to pretention the rope before making the back cut. Experiment with that before felling one that's in a critical spot and leaning hard, and beware of the barber chair.

 

[Dogbyte]

yes i like the come-a-long and pulley/block route as well. lots of room to adapt to a lot of situations seems like to me.

 

[hannontree1]

im in florida and we do alot of sandhill pines that get crazy leans to them near and over homes 60' to 90' tall we have to turn them
we allways use 2 ton come along with wedges to do this works well use throw ball to set lines if not climbing it if you Are climbing your already up there start there and if not sure of it get someone who is to do better safe then sorry:msp_ohmy:

 

[beastmaster]

When I was working removing trees in the bug program many years ago, I had just removed one tall pine next to a house using another tall pine on the otherside of the house. When it came time to remove the next tree I just knotted up the bull line and figure it would jam in the block we already had up there and we would use that to pull it over. It had a decent lean towards the house and we were going to pull it 180 degrees where we had an open shot. I made my face cut and started the back cut and they started putting tension on that rope and the knot pulled through. The Captain looked at me, said I had to go back up and put a rope in it. I was almost done with the back cut, no way I'm going to climb that tree. A ranger came out check every thing then had us get him some wedges and proceeded to wedge that tree over. I was very impressed to say the lest.
I never use wedges much except maybe to keep a tree from setting back on the bar or cutting big rounds up in the tree. There is usually a structure around and can't take no chances, but I take my hat off to those loggers who have it down to a science. I'm still impressed.

 

[Dogbyte]

my original post had the intentions of starting a conversation, wasnt asking for permission or anyone's blessings, just wanted to hear what others with experience had to say, thats what folks wanting to learn do. thanks to all the anecdotal comments, that is what i was looking for.