Ooh! Good idea. I'll bring a tub of Champs, and maybe some coal if I can get it.
A hard calk life for me
- Thread starter northmanlogging
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
I thought of doing it the coal forge... it would be a little difficult but not impossible. Its very easy to loose small things in the coals then they melt, then you get to spend the rest of the weekend chipping bits of metal out of strange places.
As far as using the forge get a crappy propane torch make a little pile of coal set the torch in there pointed at the coal, start gently cranking away on the bellows, after a few minutes it will start burning fairly good, then start slowly stacking more coal on the burning stuff (remember to remove torch) after a bit you get a big noxious cloud of yellow smoke (sulfur) then POOF you have a good fire going, keeping it going takes a bit of practice, if you bring yer forge and a bit of coal we can maybey fool around with it, I should be there friday night, have to meet the self loader in the morning and its roughly 400 miles to farley ville.
As far as using the forge get a crappy propane torch make a little pile of coal set the torch in there pointed at the coal, start gently cranking away on the bellows, after a few minutes it will start burning fairly good, then start slowly stacking more coal on the burning stuff (remember to remove torch) after a bit you get a big noxious cloud of yellow smoke (sulfur) then POOF you have a good fire going, keeping it going takes a bit of practice, if you bring yer forge and a bit of coal we can maybey fool around with it, I should be there friday night, have to meet the self loader in the morning and its roughly 400 miles to farley ville.
Just exercising my main talent...finding things for other people to do. Hard habit to break.
To keep the fire going (sorry dinner) you have to keep air to it, no air no fire. A guy can leave for a few minutes and then crank it back up and be ok (my forge has an electric fan so I burn a lot of coal but it never goes out). Secondly to keep impurities down you want to work the fresh coal from the outside in, so stack fresh coal on the outskirts of the forge and let the yucky stuff burn off and sort of scrape in the "clensed" coal in (known now as coke) this will keep things like sulfur, excess o2, and a plethora of other nasties to a minimum, (sulfur is really not very good for steel unless you want sulfurized steel which is very soft and a little bit brittle).
Now if you want to leave a coal forge and get drunk or eat some lunch etc... (don't get drunk... no really its bad) you can pile on a crap ton of raw coal and the fire will stay hot inside for several hours, it really shouldn't be left unattended though especially with a portable type forge, then once you get back from carousing or whatever you just make a little hole in the pile until you find fire and start cranking on the bellows again.
There are many other tricks to keeping a forge fire burning clean and hot, most you can read about but its better to see it done and then burn yer own fingers figuring it out, such as clinker control ( the bits of shale and regular old rock that melt and then drift down to the tyre (vent hole) once they cool they make a clinking sound) or building up a coke dome using a sprinkler can(I'm still not very good at this part, I just use massive amounts of coal and hope it works).
The biggest thing is forget tongs, get a long piece of steel a hammer and something resembling an anvil and got nuts. And don't forget something to quench with, a 5 gallon bucket of tap water works for me, you can richard around with oil, brine, and whatnot till the cows get stoned, water is cheap, and doesn't catch on fire
Now if you want to leave a coal forge and get drunk or eat some lunch etc... (don't get drunk... no really its bad) you can pile on a crap ton of raw coal and the fire will stay hot inside for several hours, it really shouldn't be left unattended though especially with a portable type forge, then once you get back from carousing or whatever you just make a little hole in the pile until you find fire and start cranking on the bellows again.
There are many other tricks to keeping a forge fire burning clean and hot, most you can read about but its better to see it done and then burn yer own fingers figuring it out, such as clinker control ( the bits of shale and regular old rock that melt and then drift down to the tyre (vent hole) once they cool they make a clinking sound) or building up a coke dome using a sprinkler can(I'm still not very good at this part, I just use massive amounts of coal and hope it works).
The biggest thing is forget tongs, get a long piece of steel a hammer and something resembling an anvil and got nuts. And don't forget something to quench with, a 5 gallon bucket of tap water works for me, you can richard around with oil, brine, and whatnot till the cows get stoned, water is cheap, and doesn't catch on fire
Eccentric
Mister Wizard
I see some Forward Thinking happening Nate.
I think there is still a place in chehalis/centrailia? called fire and ice? if they are still open they sold coal by the pound.
Patty would know. If you need some calks to practice on I still have a set of untreated Wescos. Let me know before tomorrow morning and I'll bring them.
Never heard of it, but there did used to be coal mines around here and a big one at Centralia. I guess I could raid the pile at the only? coal power plant in our state if I go into town. Gotta be quick. It will be shutting down too.
Nathan is more native to that part of the state than I, so he probably knows exactly where to go. By the way, got any Yardbirds stickers for the upcoming GTG?
I will have some briquettes for dutch ovening.
Yardbirds stickers: maybe, we'll see what I can find.
Coal in Centralia? I got this.
Forward Thinking? You better believe it.
Coal in Centralia? I got this.
Forward Thinking? You better believe it.
I have about 1/2 a ton here at the house, just getting low on room...
If some one can scrounge some stainless construction cloth in the next 3 days, may be able to build a basket type thing and cook em by batches, results may not be perfect though... Or Hel a soup can and a coat hanger might do, all depends on how hot the fire is and whether or not a guy can keep the heat where it belongs.
Ideally a propane fired forge would work better for heat treating, or for those with heavy pockets an electric kiln
If some one can scrounge some stainless construction cloth in the next 3 days, may be able to build a basket type thing and cook em by batches, results may not be perfect though... Or Hel a soup can and a coat hanger might do, all depends on how hot the fire is and whether or not a guy can keep the heat where it belongs.
Ideally a propane fired forge would work better for heat treating, or for those with heavy pockets an electric kiln
You want me to bring a set of untreated Wescos?
If ya got the room... may end up destroying them...(not that a bag of calks take up much room)
I might be able to find a bit of ceramic wool. I know where some USED to be, now to see if it's still there.
Should have a more proper heat treating kiln mocked up soon. The idea is to heat up a batch at a time, maybe speed the process up a bit and still be able to do it at home, have most of what I need just need some fire brick the rest I can build, or modify...
Also have a bid out for the making them form scratch, crossed fingers... (I'm done being a machinist and really have no desire to make these myself, I'd rather pay someone else to do it and kill trees for a living, even if it closes any kind of profit margin)
Also have a bid out for the making them form scratch, crossed fingers... (I'm done being a machinist and really have no desire to make these myself, I'd rather pay someone else to do it and kill trees for a living, even if it closes any kind of profit margin)
So batching is way better then single burning, have to play with the setup to get a little more consistent heat, but good enough for backyard work, even with setting up the "kiln" it only took about half an hour, and in reality its like 5 minutes to heat 50 calks vs. half hour to 45 minutes burning one at a time. Plus now I'm using LPG instead of acetelyne (sp)
I've been using the Philips "tool steel" calks only because that is what they have at the local saw shop... the problem with them is they are two pieces, the warsher is pressed onto the nail part, and when you heat it up sometimes they come apart... which is lame... This is different than the wesco style in that the wesco's warsher is just that a warsher and is therefore a separate part altogether (still means you have to assemble them but is sure beats trying to match a's and b's with 5-15 bits that came loose)
If I get a chance, I'll get me some champs and see how they do... just means a slightly longer drive or mail order calks...(snicker) based on simple spark testing I believe they are all made of more or less the same material. The champs are cold headed all one piece construction and then chrome/nickle plated (they (as in chrome/nickele) all look the same to me) the phillips are lathe turned and just zinc plated...
For the record, the calks in my left heal, are the original untreated, the calks in the right side are the original treated 8 the rest have been treated, since I believe this is going to work, but I still want to see what kind difference I can get out of them before absolutely needing to change out the untreated heel calks (which at this rate won't be long)
I've been using the Philips "tool steel" calks only because that is what they have at the local saw shop... the problem with them is they are two pieces, the warsher is pressed onto the nail part, and when you heat it up sometimes they come apart... which is lame... This is different than the wesco style in that the wesco's warsher is just that a warsher and is therefore a separate part altogether (still means you have to assemble them but is sure beats trying to match a's and b's with 5-15 bits that came loose)
If I get a chance, I'll get me some champs and see how they do... just means a slightly longer drive or mail order calks...(snicker) based on simple spark testing I believe they are all made of more or less the same material. The champs are cold headed all one piece construction and then chrome/nickle plated (they (as in chrome/nickele) all look the same to me) the phillips are lathe turned and just zinc plated...
For the record, the calks in my left heal, are the original untreated, the calks in the right side are the original treated 8 the rest have been treated, since I believe this is going to work, but I still want to see what kind difference I can get out of them before absolutely needing to change out the untreated heel calks (which at this rate won't be long)
If you can't find coal use some d. fir bark. I learned about that from an oldtimer and then metals reminded me of it down in the chainsaw forum.
Maybe you've already covered this, but why not treat just the tips? I'm imagining a moving chain with a propane flame getting each tip hot and then right down into the quench, continuous style. Could even use electric induction heating.
Mr. HE
Maybe you've already covered this, but why not treat just the tips? I'm imagining a moving chain with a propane flame getting each tip hot and then right down into the quench, continuous style. Could even use electric induction heating.
Mr. HE
I thought of that... lots of fab work to make it right, and of coarse a motor and stuff, was the idea behind doing one at a time, that way the threads didn't get bunged up...
just heating the whole damn thing works just fine so far...
just heating the whole damn thing works just fine so far...
That maybe the deciding factor for the steel I would like to use, scaling... The tool steel phillips (and I assume champ) are made of doesn't scale so bad, part of the reason people use tool steel for heat treated parts. The higher carbon stuff will get harder and be better at resisting abrasion, but the trade off could be more difficulty in heat treating both from warpage and from scalling... Only one way to find out and that is to make a bunch and see what happens.
OlympicYJ
ArboristSite Guru
Northman you start bath turnin em out I'd be interested. I need to change out mine on the rubbers but am being lazy. The leathers arent too bad..
Similar threads
