add on furnace vs owb

[flotek]

Show me a outdoor wood boiler that costs 3000 brand new !maybe if you made one from an old dryer in your backyard . For a owb it's nothing to blow ten grand to do it right . I think most people would be hard pressed to rally up a bunch of neighbors around them who love the smell of an owb . It is preference but a smoking outhouse isn't adding aesthetics to any yard atleast in my opinion . What kind of woodstove did you have that used the same amount of wood as your owb ? Never heard of such things. ..Must have been a barrel stove lol . Seems to me If your wood is loaded indoors you won't have to go out in ten below snowing blowing weather to add wood . If your power goes out well you better hope you got neighbors with a woodstove cuz your crap outta luck with an owb , a lot more electrical
Complication and they are known to leak water . your smoke from your outhouse is a visible sitting duck for a EPA agent to get ideas who passes by . I know that sounds like a conspiracy hunter but it's happening in the near future don't kid yourself about some how being grandfathered in . Change Is coming And there is money to be made ..eventually if you don't have an EPA certification your owb is going to be shutdown .

most ppl never even notice owb's, until I point them out, then they always say "wow, that's really cool" i have never met anyone who thinks owbs are ugly. my closest neighbor actually loves the smell of smoke and often tells me he wishes he could smell the smoke from my owb, but he lives too far away. like I already stated, my owb uses the exact same amount of wood as my wood stove did (but stoves and owbs vary)

my first prototype owb cost about 3k installed. worth every penny IMHO. I've spent longer amounts of time outside picking up wood and carrying it inside to feed the wood stove than I ever spent feeding the boiler. it takes me less than a minute to fill the owb for the night, vs, 10-30min at a time picking up wood to bring inside to feed the stove.

my water to air hx radiates heat into my furnace ducts, so my registers are always warm. only difference is, I can turn 3 valves and turn that heat off for the days when it gets up to 70 during the day, and 40 at night.

for sure!!! I have to say I tried to keep my wood stove room as clean as possible. I swept the floor 4 times a day and I always got a nice pile of dirt, wood chips, dust, etc. plus there was a fine layer of dust/ash on everything in the house all winter long. no matter how many times I dusted.

it will be in the same place as my guns, when my guns get outlawed, in my cold lifeless hand... or rather... my warm lifeless hand. lol. realistically, if owb's got outlawed mine would be grandfathered in.
i also heat 2 buildings, have unlimited hot water on demand, and I dry my clothes with my owb.

I wonder what the statistics are of house fires that can be traced to wood stoves/wood furnaces, vs house fires that can be traced to owb's?? that would be an interesting figure to find.

 

[jdogg]

Theres a lot of diff things to consider, if you want the most heat for "you" a stove in the room you sit in is best. A furnace in the house (basement) will put more heat in the house but some goes to heat the basement which IMO is not really needed. Now a furnace outdoors won't put any radiant heat in the house but the mess stays outside, always a plus. I'd say wood needed would prob go in order that I listed the options. Initial cost prob also so how long you plan to stay put should be considered. I know for sure that if I had a OWB I would deff want to enclose it in its own building within a few years. Im pretty sure warm dry wood burns a heck of lot better vrs cold icy wood.

 

[H-Ranch]

Show me a outdoor wood boiler that costs 3000 brand new !

OWB's are not for everybody, but in some circumstances they are the best option. Every "neighbor" I have (we are in a rural location) has asked questions about mine in the interest of getting their own. The stories about excessive smoke are very often users with green wood or other non-wood fuel. And one reason OWB's burn more wood is because they can burn the wood that nobody else wants. On the coldest nights I burn hickory or oak, but I've burned all types including cedar and it doesn't get much lower quality than that. If anyone is a casual wood burner then an OWB is probably not for them and I would not recommend it - you have to *want* to do it.
Here's 2 examples under $3000 all in :

 

[hupte]

Show me a outdoor wood boiler that costs 3000 brand new! maybe if you made one from an old dryer in your backyard.

OK, here you go. double welded, holds 287 gal, smoke bypass, burn chamber 36"dia x 37"deep. smaller unit. best suited for heating less than 3k sq ft. first $3k takes it today. best quality boiler on the market IMHO. not made from any old dryers. burn chamber is 3/8"thick h20 jacket is 3/4" thick.

For a owb it's nothing to blow ten grand to do it right.

I agree!!! thats why I thought i had a niche in the market for a high quality boiler for a low price. problem is, i can build anything you need with a pile of steel. but I could not sell water in the middle of the desert. now I've been tryin to unload this yard ornament to no avail for the last 2 years.

I think most people would be hard pressed to rally up a bunch of neighbors around them who love the smell of an owb .

I cant speak for everyone but of the ppl i've talked to over the years, the general consensus is; that most of them like the smell of wood smoke... i'd say 95-99% of ppl i've talked to enjoy the smell of smoke. did you know you can buy campfire candles? ya they smell like a campfire, so someone can buy the candle and enjoy the smell in their home. i think thats nuts, but i have the smell everyday. lol. don't forget some wood smoke smells pretty good, like honeylocust, ash, cherry, apple, pear, pecan... cottonwood and hedge stink though.

It is preference but a smoking outhouse isn't adding aesthetics to any yard atleast in my opinion .

Oh, well thanks for your input. i'm sure there's others out who have different opinions.

What kind of woodstove did you have that used the same amount of wood as your owb ? Never heard of such things. ..Must have been a barrel stove lol .

it is called a gatling wood stove. I actually thoroughly discussed it in post #23 of this thread. the wood stove flu temps were around 300-450*F my boiler stack temps are usually around 130*F

Seems to me If your wood is loaded indoors you won't have to go out in ten below snowing blowing weather to add wood.

I agree. 100%!!! can you agree that with an indoor unit you still have to go out in the cold to bring in the wood? like i said i can load my boiler in less than a minute, how long does it take you on average to bring in your average amount of wood for your indoor unit??

If your power goes out well you better hope you got neighbors with a woodstove cuz your crap outta luck with an owb, a lot more electrical Complication

I dont need neighbors with a wood stove. i still have my own. i also bought a small generator to run the boiler, pumps furnace etc... do you need electricity to run your wood furnace?

and they are known to leak water.

mine doesn't leak. built 4 so far, and none of them leak.

your smoke from your outhouse

ok!!! hang on its not an outhouse, no matter how much you crap on it. lol. (although an outhouse/boiler is not a bad idea, lol) its already been discussed that burning properly seasoned wood makes very little smoke.

is a visible sitting duck for a EPA agent to get ideas who passes by. I know that sounds like a conspiracy hunter but it's happening in the near future

(ok i've been serious until now. now i'm typing with the maximum amount of sarcasm possible) gee, is it really? it sounds like a conspiracy theory but its true huh?? and its happening?? so its just like all conspiracy theories then!!!! well let me just strap on my aluminum foil helmet to block my thoughts from leaving while i explain this. cause if dont warn ppl now, then obama will put us all into enslavement camps, so the government can plan another 9/11. it was an inside job you know, just like pearl harbor!!! then that will distract us while they finish building the microwave towers at the north pole. they need those towers to mess with your thoughts. (not mine, cause i have my helmet) those towers also help them find the remainder of the alien bodies on the moon. YA. i know it sounds crazy but its true!!!!! and its happening in the near future!!!!

don't kid yourself about some how being grandfathered in. Change Is coming And there is money to be made ..eventually if you don't have an EPA certification your owb is going to be shutdown.

oh no!! what ever will i do??? even my helmet wont save me then!!! surely i'll still be able to use my wood stove right?? unless of course.... that gets ban too!?!?!? OH GOD OF COURSE IT WILL!!!! their plan is diabolical!!!! if only there was some option!!! (panicked) oh wait WHEWWW!!! that was a close one!! Ive got it.. i'll buy a gassifier. wheww. crisis averted. what a relief. good thing i'm wearing my helmet. :-D
(back to reality) look dude we both have different heating needs, financial situations, opinions. doesn't mean either one of us is right or wrong. its the reason there is stoves, wood furnaces, and owbs, gassifiers, etc. if there was one unit, or set up that was perfect for everyone, then everyone would have it. and there would be no one buying the other units.

 

[hupte]

OWB's are not for everybody, but in some circumstances they are the best option. Every "neighbor" I have (we are in a rural location) has asked questions about mine in the interest of getting their own. The stories about excessive smoke are very often users with green wood or other non-wood fuel. And one reason OWB's burn more wood is because they can burn the wood that nobody else wants. On the coldest nights I burn hickory or oak, but I've burned all types including cedar and it doesn't get much lower quality than that. If anyone is a casual wood burner then an OWB is probably not for them and I would not recommend it - you have to *want* to do it.
Here's 2 examples under $3000 all in :

lol i love the abomitable snow man in the first pic.

 

[AIM]

Flotek just believes that you could burn old tires in a stove with no smoke. The fact that he and many other epa squawking whiners seem to not get is that ANY wood fired appliance will smoke when you put the WRONG **** in them. ANY OF THEM...
And ANY wood fired appliance will burn clean when you put the RIGHT **** in them. Duh.

 

[JeffHK454]

I'd also be willing to bet a hefty portion of the people that run OWB's under utilize them or sized them for future plans , the smoke dragon rep. comes from too large a unit sitting at idle for long periods of time with no call for heat.

I've got a friend who's member here that bought his OWB with big ideas about adding a nice big heated building behind his house but life got in the way and his dream shop has yet to be built, now he's got a unit made to supply heat to 5,000 sqft..heating a house under 2,000 sqft.

Doesn't matter what wood fired heating appliance you use if you starve it for air it's gonna smoke.

 

[laynes69]

Owb's and very convenient when it comes to heating, the problem is their efficiency. I've heard efficiency numbers of 30-40%. My buddy has a Central Boiler, last year he burned 64 full size truckloads. This year is worse as far as temperatures and he can't keep up. What they burn in a day would last me probably a week. In fairness, their home isn't insulated but it's much smaller than ours. Someone else I know has one, and currently in this weather (single digits and below zero) they are burning a cord or more a week. In both cases, they could benefit greatly from insulation and airsealing.

If I was considering a OWB, I would look into a gasification boiler in a small outbuilding. The other thing that will eventually happen is leaks. Some companies are better than others, but I've seen some as little as a year or two develop leaks. With current regs that are getting ready to hit, hopefully those with a warranty don't have their manufacturers go out of business.

We have an Epa certified wood furnace. As long as you install with all proper clearances, you won't have to worry about fires. Also if the power goes, the furnace can gravity heat. The radiant heat the furnace gives off in the basement keeps the floors above warm and keeps pipes from freezing. Because of secondary combustion, I burn pine and other woods that others won't burn. I lucked out, but I have under 2000 in my entire setup from the furnace to the liner. My wife and I can spend 10 minutes carrying in wood that will last us a week or more. I'm one to vote for an indoor wood furnace, but not everyone had ductwork or the room for a furnace. Either way, find something with a good efficiency and burn good seasoned wood and you'll be ahead.

 

[JeffHK454]

Owb's and very convenient when it comes to heating, the problem is their efficiency. I've heard efficiency numbers of 30-40%. My buddy has a Central Boiler, last year he burned 64 full size truckloads. This year is worse as far as temperatures and he can't keep up. What they burn in a day would last me probably a week. In fairness, their home isn't insulated but it's much smaller than ours. Someone else I know has one, and currently in this weather (single digits and below zero) they are burning a cord or more a week. In both cases, they could benefit greatly from insulation and airsealing.

If I was considering a OWB, I would look into a gasification boiler in a small outbuilding. The other thing that will eventually happen is leaks. Some companies are better than others, but I've seen some as little as a year or two develop leaks. With current regs that are getting ready to hit, hopefully those with a warranty don't have their manufacturers go out of business.

We have an Epa certified wood furnace. As long as you install with all proper clearances, you won't have to worry about fires. Also if the power goes, the furnace can gravity heat. The radiant heat the furnace gives off in the basement keeps the floors above warm and keeps pipes from freezing. Because of secondary combustion, I burn pine and other woods that others won't burn. I lucked out, but I have under 2000 in my entire setup from the furnace to the liner. My wife and I can spend 10 minutes carrying in wood that will last us a week or more. I'm one to vote for an indoor wood furnace, but not everyone had ductwork or the room for a furnace. Either way, find something with a good efficiency and burn good seasoned wood and you'll be ahead.

I can't imagine wanting to dedicate that much time and effort to wood heat....60+ truck loads of wood a year is friggin crazy. I don't spent 10-14 days year total messing with firewood...

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

My buddy has a Central Boiler, last year he burned 64 full size truckloads. This year is worse as far as temperatures and he can't keep up. What they burn in a day would last me probably a week. In fairness, their home isn't insulated but it's much smaller than ours. Someone else I know has one, and currently in this weather (single digits and below zero) they are burning a cord or more a week. In both cases, they could benefit greatly from insulation and airsealing.

What would be interesting is to take your current stove model and install it in your buddy's home and see the difference made in wood usage. I do know that a lot of times a MAJOR mistake people do is skimping on the line from the boiler to the house. They end up heating the ground do to poor insulation or water getting around the lines. I went overkill there as when I put mine in there were NOT too many options. I ran mine through smooth bore pipe with pea gravel surrounding it. Put a drainage tile under it to pull ANY water away. I can change out my line in probably less than a hour with no ground work. A guy at work who knew better said his soil drained good enough. His first year he couldn't get a 8 hour burn with it fully loaded on a NEW house. Water was on the ground around his boiler as he put it in a low.

As you state insulation/good windows makes a HUGE difference. I said above in an apples to apples case with my home I went from 28 cord to 13 cord with insulation being the only change. Heating 3600 sq ft of home and garage with house being 2 story with full basement + hot water. Listen guys, insulation pays for itself in a hurry. Cut my wood usage by more than half and the house is warm. It wasn't that first year.

 

[laynes69]

I can't imagine wanting to dedicate that much time and effort to wood heat....60+ truck loads of wood a year is friggin crazy. I don't spent 10-14 days year total messing with firewood...

When we compare systems, he just laughs and can't believe how little we burn. He also isn't heating his hot water, just a coil in his plenum for heat. I fully understand someone wanting to save money and installing a boiler or furnace to offset heating costs, but many times the condition of the home is overlooked. I was burning 8-12 cords of wood some winters, not realizing how much because I would cut and throw in the basement as well as burning from the stacks beside the home. We tightened up our home, insulated where needed and airsealed and installed a modern furnace and cut our usage by up to 50%.

It's hard saying if our furnace now would meet their heating demand. It might, they like 68 we like 72-74. Their chimney needed a couple of blocks on top, and a liner. They were afraid of having a woodfurnace in their home. I'm not joking when I say a load in our furnace would be kindling for theirs.

 

[laynes69]

What would be interesting is to take your current stove model and install it in your buddy's home and see the difference made in wood usage. I do know that a lot of times a MAJOR mistake people do is skimping on the line from the boiler to the house. They end up heating the ground do to poor insulation or water getting around the lines. I went overkill there as when I put mine in there were NOT too many options. I ran mine through smooth bore pipe with pea gravel surrounding it. Put a drainage tile under it to pull ANY water away. I can change out my line in probably less than a hour with no ground work. A guy at work who knew better said his soil drained good enough. His first year he couldn't get a 8 hour burn with it fully loaded on a NEW house. Water was on the ground around his boiler as he put it in a low.

As you state insulation/good windows makes a HUGE difference. I said above in an apples to apples case with my home I went from 28 cord to 13 cord with insulation being the only change. Heating 3600 sq ft of home and garage with house being 2 story with full basement + hot water. Listen guys, insulation pays for itself in a hurry. Cut my wood usage by more than half and the house is warm. It wasn't that first year.

I don't know what he used for insulation for his lines. I do know he ran copper for his lines. The last time I knew, he had little heat loss in the lines.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

I don't know what he used for insulation for his lines. I do know he ran copper for his lines. The last time I knew, he had little heat loss in the lines.

I think he might want to check his temp of water at the stove and what it is when it gets to the house. Just borrow an infrared temp tester from someone. Lots of times local fire departments have them and you can have them give you a quick test if you know someone in the department. Just turn off all the pumps in the house or lower the thermastats so return line isn't giving a false reading. Depends on the line length but more than a couple degrees and I would be worried. If his home is not insulated with bad windows I can believe his usage though. Does snow melt quicker where the line run is?

 

[laynes69]

I don't think he has any snow melt, if I recall he did have thermometers on the lines. She was telling me there's times they load 3 times a day. When it's in the single digits, it will vaporize wood. I couldn't imagine, I had a hard time keeping up when we had our old furnace. I've seen more than a few people in the small towns around here remove their OWB's after realizing the amount of work that went into them. Some installed woodstoves and others furnace's.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

I don't think he has any snow melt, if I recall he did have thermometers on the lines. She was telling me there's times they load 3 times a day. When it's in the single digits, it will vaporize wood. I couldn't imagine, I had a hard time keeping up when we had our old furnace.

Bet the birds sit on his windowsills to keep warm!

 

[AIM]

WOW! 64 truckloads!! Something is wrong.
I use approx a truckload a week (which I've always guessed at 1/2 cord) (about 25 loads per year)

I have always loved the big brag anti owb stove lovers use about a power outage. Gee.. as if nobody knew that...
Yep when the power goes out my boiler doesn't run. Not really a big deal people. The house cools down and then when the power is restored it heats back up. (it's like magic)
If it was going to be down for days I'd hitch my gen up and make it run. Owb's aren't the answer for everyone but one thing I have noticed is that the vast majority of owb users love em and wouldn't want anything different.

 

[woodknocker]

I have a CB 5648 and think it's great. With these units the house temperature doesn't vary all day vs wood stove also they can heat other buildings and appliances. (Hot tubs, domestic hot water etc.). While you are away from home your unit is still maintaining the temp for a long time depending on how much wood you load. This is all winter. I also have a Jensen indoor wood/coal unit that was in the house when we bought it. With wood it needed to be filled @ every six hours and coal lasted a little longer but the wife had a problem keeping it lit. Get the outdoor unit in my humble opinion and reap the benefits.

 

[walkerdogman85]

Some people won't ever get it! We all burn wood and we should be on the same side. I went through having total electric to burning in a Wood stove in the basement to a forced air in the basement. Then came the OWB. Best money ever spent! Like everyone else says consistent heat all through out, unlimited hot water too. I have a conventional OWB and I do get some smoke but no more than my neighbors wood stove he has indoors. I even burn coal in mine. It has more some than wood but after it cycles one time you can't tell it's running nothing but heat shimmer. When on idle you may see a little but usually not. It's all in what and how you burn. As for OWB getting banned first get on EPA website and inside stoves, insides boilers, and outdoor boilers are all being hit by the new regs... Except coal