Adding to the fleet

[bump_r]

When I graduated from my Poulan, I settled in on the Stihl brand, particularly due to reputation and dealer/service network arraingement. My first Stihl was the not-so-popular-here MS290. The combination of price, performance, and capability was "just right" for me at the time. From what I understand, it's basically the same saw as the 310 and 390, just under-bored and under-carbed. My thinking was that the 290 chassis and bottom end should have a pretty easy life around the 290 given that it does well around the bigger brothers. May be wrong, but that's where my head was at the time. I just needed to upgrade from the Lowes stuff pronto.

Well, it didn't take too many weekends to feel the weight of the thing, so a very small, inexpensive, and surprizingly capable MS170 came home with me for limbing duty. These are my two working saws. I've put enough time, energy, and beer-filled evenings into getting any use out of the Poulans, I think they're out the door. The Mac 35 is a curiosity, as is the Remington - I really have no hopes (YAY!) of getting any work out of them.

Now on with it! I have, on occasion, "run out of saw" with the 290. Sometime before spring, I will be getting a big saw for the rare but required big wood. I'm sticking with Stihl. Going with the 310 or 390 seems too small of a jump, so venturing into the realm of "pro" saws is in order. With my intended use, budget, and realistic view of the situation, the 660 and 880 are definitely out. WAY too much saw for me! I've heard first-hand accounds of the 440 and this is on my short list. Also, the numbers look pretty good on the 460. Looking at the 650, I just can't see lugging around a 16-lb plus saw for just 0.4 HP gain. The 650 and 440 share a 2.5 lb/hp, whereas the 460 is a bit better at 2.4 Looks like I've talked myself in to the 440 or 460. So, is there anything regarding chassis, engine, history, capability, or any other aspect of either saw that should sway me, or just go with whichever one calls to me when I hit the shop? Naturally, I'm leaning to the 460... I'd like to run a 25" (or slightly longer) bar and RS chain - both the 440 and 460 can accept 16"-32" bars according to Sthil's site.

BTW, I know that the lb/hp value isn't the end-all to performance ratings, but given the bad rap my beloved 290 gets for its power-to-weight ratio, I figured it worth exploring.

 

[460Ted]

Can't go wrong with either the 440 or 460. Intrestingly enough, the 460 weighs only .4 of a pound more than the 440 on a digital scale. For me it was a no-brainer, 460, that way I would never find myself saying "what if?"

Ted

 

[vharrison2]

bump r, welcome to the site and congratulations on being a new dad! Just be sure to stick to Sthil!!

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

What are you cutting? Firewood? Timber? Trimming? If budget is an issue, look at the 361. It'll smoke check the 290, and weigh less doing it. The 440 and 460 are each very good saws, but if you don't need that much saw, save some cash. Any of these will tickle you silly running them compared to the 290.

Jeff

 

[bump_r]

Yeah, the 460 seems to be edging out. Thanks. "No-Brainer"? Yup, that's me! Just check out my oil mix ratio calculations elsewhere!

Thanks for the welcome vharrison!

f/h/cw - I cut firewood for campground/home use, storm damage clean-up - that sort of thing. No professional stuff. Thing is, once I commit to a job, I feel real crappy if I can't do it. I've almost had to walk away from a big-arse oak trunk but toughed it out with the 290 - I'd much rather have the right tool to tackle these "big 'uns" when they show up on my list of stuff to do. Matter of fact, I drive by a 30"+ hardwood truck/stump that's been in a dude's front yard for a year, now. Ice storm blow-over. Uprooted the whoile dang thing. I suspect his free-removal guy ran out of saw already - I really would not mind finishing the job for the wood. Cutting is kind of a theraputic deal, something to keep me busy in colder weather.

The 361 "tops-out" with a 25" blade (HA! Gotcha!) BAR. I don't know about running at the extreme end of recommended bar lengths, and would really prefer having the option of going bigger. Yeah, the 361 is apparently a great saw, just not a big enough step beyond the 290 for me...

 

[turnkey4099]

Yeah, the 460 seems to be edging out. Thanks. "No-Brainer"? Yup, that's me! Just check out my oil mix ratio calculations elsewhere!

Thanks for the welcome vharrison!

f/h/cw - I cut firewood for campground/home use, storm damage clean-up - that sort of thing. No professional stuff. Thing is, once I commit to a job, I feel real crappy if I can't do it. I've almost had to walk away from a big-arse oak trunk but toughed it out with the 290 - I'd much rather have the right tool to tackle these "big 'uns" when they show up on my list of stuff to do. Matter of fact, I drive by a 30"+ hardwood truck/stump that's been in a dude's front yard for a year, now. Ice storm blow-over. Uprooted the whoile dang thing. I suspect his free-removal guy ran out of saw already - I really would not mind finishing the job for the wood. Cutting is kind of a theraputic deal, something to keep me busy in colder weather.

The 361 "tops-out" with a 25" blade (HA! Gotcha!) BAR. I don't know about running at the extreme end of recommended bar lengths, and would really prefer having the option of going bigger. Yeah, the 361 is apparently a great saw, just not a big enough step beyond the 290 for me...

The 'free guy running out of saw' clicks here. Back when a farmer fell a row of huge old Black Locust and advertised it as free wood. I jumped on it but he said that someone else was ahead of me. A week later he called said I had it as the other guy quit. I looked at his work and all he had done was cut a few limbs. By the cuts it looked like about a 12" bar. My biggest was 24" and it was taxed on every one of those trees as it approached the butt even cutting from both sides.

Harry K

 

[bump_r]

Oh, the free black locust! Yup, I did run out of saw, there. Friend had a pro drop several of these and chip/haul brush, and asked if I wanted to get the rest out to save him $$ and get me free wood. Dang, the pro didn't get 'em dropped until spring, so I spent as many dry days I could to get it done. Telephone wires, fence, ants, baby opossum - these were well-inhabited! Finally got them, but DANG. 95+ deg and humidity is NOT good cutting weather! But, I made the committment, so I had to do it. I hate yard trees and fence row trees. Maybe I need a RD carbide tipped chain...

 

[computeruser]

I was in a nearly identical position a while back. I was looking to upgrade from my 290 to something that would have the oomph to finish the bigger jobs. I had posed the question on ForestryForum of whether my needs would best be met by a 440, 460, or 660, under a post titled "How much saw do I need" in case you want to go read the responses there. Cost wasn't a consideration, but weight was - I kinda wanted this to be an all-around saw, too. In the end, I had settled on a 460, anticipating that I would immediately substitute a dual-port muffler cover and retune. I figured that this was enough power to run a 20" beautifully as the everyday bar and to pull a 28" when a larger setup was necessary.

In the end, I went out on a limb and picked up a Dolmar 7900, as the specs were a bit better than the 460 - a bit more horsepower, the unit was lighter, and the price was absolutely great. I also did this because TonyM, who is a Dolmar dealer and Arboristsite sponsor, lives less than an hour from my house. I have been able to meet all my needs with this saw's output.

I think that if you are planning on using your new saw as a primary saw (as I suspect you will once you get it side-by-side with the 290) and using the 290 to cut it out of the occasional pinch, you should go with the 460 with a dual-port muffler cover.

 

[Lakeside53]

You can run an MS361 with a 28 inch bar and full skip chain, nicely. How often are you actually buried 28 inches into wood all the time? Sure it works better with an 16 or 20 on smaller wood, but... it's mostly about the width of wood, and a little less to do with the bar length.

I agree with FHCW.... the 290 and 361 are worlds apart. Don't draw comparison directly based on paper HP... or weight.. but try the saw. Remember, you can buy a MS361, try it for up to 7 days, and then take it back to the dealer for a full refund if you don't think it's up to snuff, or, if you just changed you mind and decided to buy 5 Home depot Poulans instead. The dealer may not be all that happy (but Stihl does compensate him), but it's part of the the Stihl "Satisfaction Guarantee".

 

[bump_r]

Just read the thread - look slike a mirror-site to this one! Looks more and more like the 460.

at 49.7:1 heh heh!

For the record, Maryann.

 

[460Ted]

Maryann, indeed.

 

[bump_r]

if you just changed you mind and decided to buy 5 Home depot Poulans instead.

Cough!! ugh, Cough cough!

I see your point about trying one, but I just don't know when I'm going to run into a situation where I can realistically challenge the saw. The logistics and timing to make the 7-day trial could bite me in the end. Your reply, as well as those before and to follow, are my barometers in the absense of a hands-on. I really appreciate all views - thanks.

 

[Patrick62]

My 2 cents worth

I understand the weight thing, and the 460 isn't exactly a feather weight. Once you stick a bar on it, you have a fairly heavy package. However! Once you bury that mother, you will get a big grin as the chips fly.

I got my 460 last summer (041 previous saw), and I love it.
Open up the muffler a touch, as the factory design is pretty sad.

The 440 would probably do well, but I am at high elevation and more cubes is better.

-Pat

 

[Simonizer]

460 is the saw for you partner. 650 is a dog.

 

[Lakeside53]

Cough!! ugh, Cough cough!

I see your point about trying one, but I just don't know when I'm going to run into a situation where I can realistically challenge the saw. The logistics and timing to make the 7-day trial could bite me in the end. Your reply, as well as those before and to follow, are my barometers in the absense of a hands-on. I really appreciate all views - thanks.

So just get on one the day when you will cut wood...

 

[bump_r]

OK, looks like 458_lott beat me to getting the 460, congrats!

About that full-wrap handle - what's that all about? Allows one to use the saw in three positions (top at 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock)? I can see how one would have to cut from two sides of a tree to fell it, but can't a guy just go to the other side of the tree? I'm being serious - I've not seen many (OK, ANY) full-wraps used around here - what's the attraction, benefit, and should I consider it?

Oh, thanks to Ted for the dual port muffle cover P/N listing in that thread - I printed it out so I won't have to start a thread about it later...

 

[bikepilot]

I always thought the biggest benifit of a full wrap was protecting the saw from bumps and brusies, but I'm not an expert

 

[turnkey4099]

OK, looks like 458_lott beat me to getting the 460, congrats!

About that full-wrap handle - what's that all about? Allows one to use the saw in three positions (top at 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock)? I can see how one would have to cut from two sides of a tree to fell it, but can't a guy just go to the other side of the tree? I'm being serious - I've not seen many (OK, ANY) full-wraps used around here - what's the attraction, benefit, and should I consider it?

Oh, thanks to Ted for the dual port muffle cover P/N listing in that thread - I printed it out so I won't have to start a thread about it later...

I have an 041 with full wrap/24" bar. It is invaluable when falling and needing to cut from both sides on stuff over about 22" or when you can only make the cut (due to obstructions) from the off side. I don't follow the 'just go to the other side', the saw will be/is still upside down and that extra handle makes it much easier to control.

Harry K

 

[bump_r]

My thought was that if you make a right-to left cut, the only side-grip of a "regular" handle is on top - to cut the other side of the trunk, you could either turn the saw over (w/ full-wrap) OR go to the other side of the tree and go totown (half-wrap).

BTW - I'm one of those guys that uses saw cases pretty religiously, so the benefits to a full-wrap would have to be pretty good to convince me to not case it between uses. I don't think the full-wrap fits in the standard Stihl case.

 

[TimberPig]

Full wrap handles are mostly a west coast thing, where the terrain is often steep, broken, and the timber big. This is where having the ability to handle the saw from either side comes in most valuable, as you may only be able to cut from one side of the tree. With the size of the timber out here, the butt flare normally precludes making your stump so low as to run into problems with the handle hitting the ground. Elsewhere in North America and the world, they aren't very popular, partly because the terrain is more forgiving, the timber often smaller, and frequently the stump height possible is lower, where the wrap handle might cause issues. It is mostly a preference thing as well, west coast guys like the full wraps because the benefits are there for us, and they are an entrenched idea that a saw must have a full wrap out here. Elsewhere, this isn't true, so they mainly stick to their half wraps.