Advice needed for 4 acre pine forest

[Reesedlightning]

I’ve got a planted lot of southern yellow pine on my property that’s about 4 acres in size. The forest is about 30 years old and some of the more mature trees are coming down with the high winds we’ve hade lately and as the forest ages, more trees just keep falling. I know the trees are reaching the end of their practical lifespan and Im trying to figure out how to deal with these trees properly. I’ve contacted a pulpwood buyer who agreed to buy the trees but the tricky part is finding a logger that has the interest in such a small lot. I’ve considered selective harvesting myself but then I don’t have a log truck or anything to transport the stuff. The other side of it all is that it really is a beautiful patch of woods that serves as an ecosystem for a lot of animals. Up here in norther VA a lot of people are clearing and selling land for stupid cookie cutter houses so local habitats are being threatened. As a MD VA DE master logger, I feel a sense of responsibility to do the right environmentally ethical thing.

I suppose what I’m asking is what the heck should I do about this wood lot. It’s a shame to see these trees come down and go to waste but it doesn’t seem to make financial sense to try and small scale harvest and then it’s equally difficult to find someone to clear cut it and sell the timber for profit.

 

[northmanlogging]

I’ve got a planted lot of southern yellow pine on my property that’s about 4 acres in size. The forest is about 30 years old and some of the more mature trees are coming down with the high winds we’ve hade lately and as the forest ages, more trees just keep falling. I know the trees are reaching the end of their practical lifespan and Im trying to figure out how to deal with these trees properly. I’ve contacted a pulpwood buyer who agreed to buy the trees but the tricky part is finding a logger that has the interest in such a small lot. I’ve considered selective harvesting myself but then I don’t have a log truck or anything to transport the stuff. The other side of it all is that it really is a beautiful patch of woods that serves as an ecosystem for a lot of animals. Up here in norther VA a lot of people are clearing and selling land for stupid cookie cutter houses so local habitats are being threatened. As a MD VA DE master logger, I feel a sense of responsibility to do the right environmentally ethical thing.

I suppose what I’m asking is what the heck should I do about this wood lot. It’s a shame to see these trees come down and go to waste but it doesn’t seem to make financial sense to try and small scale harvest and then it’s equally difficult to find someone to clear cut it and sell the timber for profit.

You claim to be a "master Logger" yet you are here looking for advice?

 

[Sawdust Man]

Look for a local small sawmill, and see if they are needing logs. I'd buy it all or one tree at a time if I was in your area. I'm always looking for pine for my small sawmill business, I can do the logging myself as well.
With any luck there's someone in your area like me, and it's a win win situation for both parties.

 

[Reesedlightning]

You claim to be a "master Logger" yet you are here looking for advice?

That’s helpful. Thank you. The master logger program does not teach loggers how to be loggers. It teaches young aspiring people how to enter the field with environmental ethics and best practices in mind and how to make the industry better and more sustainable. Problem is, they don’t teach you about small scale harvesting or the parameters around it. I came here for help and to gain knowledge that I don’t have. I thought someone like you with as much knowledge and experience as you have would have a more constructive comment. I will agree, the term master logger is rather misleading It should not have been used without explanation

 

[northmanlogging]

That’s helpful. Thank you. The master logger program does not teach loggers how to be loggers. It teaches young aspiring people how to enter the field with environmental ethics and best practices in mind and how to make the industry better and more sustainable. Problem is, they don’t teach you about small scale harvesting or the parameters around it. I came here for help and to gain knowledge that I don’t have. I thought someone like you with as much knowledge and experience as you have would have a more constructive comment. I will agree, the term master logger is rather misleading It should not have been used without explanation

well, round here, the master logger program, is for professional loggers, hence the question.

Small forestry is totally a thing, there is bound to be someone local that will be more then happy to log 4 acers.

The ethical thing would be to plant back to a native species that is more diverse, a talk with your local forestry agent would do a lot for helping you plan.

 

[Reesedlightning]

Thank you, sir. I really wish the program here had more practical instruction and field experience. There are guys in my class that are earning their certification and haven’t spent more than a couple days in the woods so I suppose I probably shouldn’t hang my hat on that shingle.
Whatever I take out of the woods I certainly plan on putting back.

it sounds like I just need to do more homework in finding more resources around me

 

[Brushwacker]

You claim to be a "master Logger" yet you are here looking for advice?

Without counsel purposes are dissappointed,but in the multitude of counselors they are established.

 

[GeeVee]

Well, dang. SYP is valuable to an extent. Keep reaching out, doing some research, its not acute right this minute to do it all. How well was it planted and how well has it been managed? What is the "condition" of the product? What would the product be useful for? Have you found a timber cruiser who will look at it and give you some assistance. Don't jump at the first offer, rather, go find some similiar buyers and see what they have to offer.

 

[slowp]

I know nothing about that species of pine or your area. However, the logging should be similar.
What works best for small parcels is to wait until something nearby is getting logged. Then see if the same outfit will do your land. That saves quite a bit in the move in move out costs, which can be quite spendy. Otherwise, look for a small business. Northman does that kind of logging in his area and I used to have a semi-retired neighbor who still dabbled in logging.

Be sure to check references of the logger before making an agreement. Look at what they've done recently and talk to people.

Like stated above, I don't know anything about that species of pine, but if they are blowing over, could there be root rot in the area?

 

[fruitcakesa]

On a larger scale; but I have been in similar situation when I first began managing our 52 acres of mostly pine with some northern hardwood and hemlock.
One difference is I want to do the work myself not hire a logger, though still need buyers and haulers.
I was only able to a small acreage at a time as I had minimal equipment, portable log winches and small dozers early on.
I would cruise the lot and figure out what I had volume and grade wise then call the mills for pricing, contact the trucker to arrange haulage.
It is not rocket science but it requires confidence and competence to get a fair deal.
Having mill and trucking contacts is key

 

[wagz]

you care about the habitat/animals as indicated in your first post. why have it timbered at all? who cares if a tree here or there falls. assume there are smaller ones ready to take their place? fallen trees provide much service for the animals as shelter and as a line that tree saplings can grow alongside with some degree of protection. if a bunch of trees fall down in a particular area can you simply replant with a variety of evergreens? keeping the area an evergreen spot would be nice for animals especially come winter...

 

[Reesedlightning]

All really good points and awesome feedback. I’ve started marking some of the older trees and some that look somewhat unhealthy and the leaners. Found a couple folks in my area that expressed some interest but most want a reliable or constant source. But it’s a start. I’m thinking I’m going to leave as much healthy standing as possible but harvest the marked trees. There are enough people around with small mills and such I’m sure someone will bite.

 

[cookies]

Have a arborist inspect them, engineered southern yellow pines often require trimming to control their canopy size/shape to prevent the tops from breaking in high winds.

 

[dboyd351]

For starters, yellow pine is not a species - it is a marketing term that refers to a handful of different pines. To manage them correctly you need to know exactly what species you have.
If you want value for wildlife you need a mix of species including hardwoods
Stands consisting of only pines (usually loblolly in the SE US) were usually planted for pulpwood/ timber harvest not wildlife value
Standing dead trees (called snags) have wildlife value as nesting habitat. Fallen trees also have wildlife value as they decompose provide habitat for insects and nutrients for the soil.

 

[cookies]

Inspect any freshly dead or blown down trees for southern pine beetle damage under the bark. Engineered aka planted pines aka genetically modified are man made to grow long straight trunks with few branches only at the crown/very top as quickly as possible for a harvest dates set in specific years of their life cycle for thinning then final harvest in the 15-20 year mark possibly longer with their given age of strain. Planted pines have a smaller root ball by design for row planting as close together as possible and easily removed for replanting making them prone to blow over if over thinned, their tap root can be rather impressive in depth/size. Being older It should be tighter ringed, higher quality and stronger wood than normal harvests making it more valuable for lumber than pulp. It might be worth getting a sawmill, turning it all into boards and paying to have them graded/inspected/stamped with a large pay out or finding a local small scale mill that would harvest/mill and give you a % of the board feet and a payout. Old growth pine flooring/furniture can be quite breathtaking with its tight growth rings and amber yellows. Down here pine cut and left on the ground will be full of bugs in under 14 days with the bark easily peeled off in sheets when moved. But once the sap hardens in the wood the bugs won't touch it, check a few of the old stumps and rotted trucks for this wood in the center. It makes for the absolute best fire starter once split up into small thin kindling and in larger amounts it is absolutely breath takingly beautiful being full of bright yellows, reds and orange veins in bright yellow sap laden wood. To preserve the color it must be immediately sealed.

 

[JAXJEREMY]

I'll give you my .02 cents based on my experience. While I'm not a master logger, I've spent a lot of time in the woods and have worked with foresters and logging companies over the years. Anyway, we have about 100 acres of property in SE WVA that we timbered 2 and a half years ago..mostly hardwood with some decent size poplar stands that hadn't been logged in over 60 years. Each year we'd get more and more blow downs from storms and ice and not just little trees either, some nice size red oaks that were worth a decent amount of $$. I don't know the price of timber in your area, or what yellow pine is going for, but it might be worth your while to have someone come out and do a timber cruise. It will cost maybe a couple grand, but it will give you an idea of what it's worth, then maybe you can make a more informed decision.

Having said that, I'm all for keeping habitat. After we had our place timbered, I applied for a program through NRCS (Natural Resources Conservation Service), we're now getting paid for doing certain conservation activities each year for the next 5 years. So, we got paid for the timber and are now getting paid to conserve..If you're not trying to pull money out by logging, there are a lot of programs out there like that, might be something worth looking into. Good luck!

 

[Reesedlightning]

Cookies and JAX
That info connects so many dots to what I have been learning. I’ve been collecting contacts over the past 6 months and slowly growing a network of people that will help me get some of this milled into something profitable. I’ve started running the sawmill at my job but I’m new to it and still hesitant to start taking personal logs and using company equipment to mill them. Although some of the older pines in the forest would make absolutely beautiful furniture pieces indeed.
Certainly looking at selective and careful thinning as to not take away from the healthy trees. I have found that just about every kind of creature has some sort of presence in the forest. As soon as the logs hit the ground it seems like they get bugs in them in about a week. The standing dead stuff is home to some beautiful pileated woodpeckers, all kinds or rodents and such. I try to remain sensitive to that as I do respect the ecosystem that’s happening there. I like the idea of getting in touch with some sort of conservation network. I appreciate that information.
On a separate note, I spent a decent amount of time and money on going through the master logger program here in MD and I am finding that there is more useful knowledge here with the guys on the forum and out in the field at work than what I was taught through endless PowerPoint and tests. Perfect example of when pencil pushers try to teach trades people how to do their job.