Need advice about tall pines close to house

[JR Hill]

I'm a tree hugger too! Mainly in the winter when I gather up a big armload, close to my heart, as I carry the diced, split and dried pieces to the house so we will be warm for the next 24 hours.

As is typical on forums we all live in different places with a myriad of different factors. Here we are in the eighth year of a draught cycle. Our ponderosa pines are taking a beating with the drought stress. They get weakened, healthwise, and THEN the bugs attack. It's pretty obvious when a stand of pines dies off but 50' away in a place where there is ample subsurface groundwater they are majestic and thriving. The sick trees are weeping bunches sap and the healthy ones close by very little. The bugs bypassed them looking for the next target. Let's not talk of thinning yet.

I don't prefer to burn pine but we have much died and fallen stuff - right close by. I have to work it up to mitigate wildfire risk around the homestead and clean the understory close by. Ironically, the doug firs and stands of Oregon Oak could care less about the drought cycle for the most part. You have to study and know your land. It takes brain cells and you need to key into a LOCAL source of information - specific to your area. There are old loggers around who have seen previous cycles and are a great source of wisdom.

Know your land. Don't take an overall approach from the internet. Each of our places is unique and deserving of a hug. Whether firewood or not.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I'm surprised at the number of people who recommend thinning. I never even heard of this. Thanks for that information.

I've had several arborists on my property over the years. Most said, "You're worrying too much." One said, "You should remove everything within striking distance of the house." One said, about the bull pine mentioned above, "Don't worry, this tree has broad roots. It will still be standing 10 years from now." He was wrong---it fell 5 years later. I think I should figure out what a real arborist is, as opposed to "a guy who cuts down trees and sells them," and get a new assessment.

My theory is, it's 100% certain that these trees will fall. It's just a question of will they fall while I own the house or the next owner? With the mass of branches on the west side behind the house, it feels like Russian roulette to not get rid of them. During major windstorms, my house no longer provides shelter. I have to seek shelter elsewhere from my own property. There's something wrong with that picture.

I think I should figure out what a real arborist is, as opposed to "a guy who cuts down trees and sells them," and get a new assessment.
Yes, you should.
Jeff

 

[RogerLemelin]

It sounds like a condo would be a good fit.

Being tortured by your landscape is no way to live.

I hear you. After considering all this, I've decided to build a small house with simple landscaping and deciduous trees. I actually enjoy doing some mowing and gardening. But not being held captive by the property.

 

[cookies]

Around here pine trees break their trunks well below the canopy in high winds, rarely uproot unless excessive moisture causes soil integrity issues or root rot. Thinning the canopy by a arborist is likely the best compromise for safety and keeping the trees. Also keep a close eye for dying branches that require removal. Typically removal is suggested for a permanent solution. Riding mowers can have taller tires added for a inch or possibly two of increased deck height and chains added to the rim of the deck help prevent flying debris. We used to spend the first 6 weeks gradually mowing lower and lower so the mower was capable of picking up needles, smaller branches and even green closed cones...though I must admit it was a childhood game to lift the front wheels when a large green cone was getting hammered by the blade resulting in said cone being launched up to 50 feet...father loved a 9 iron or 7 iron to relocate smaller cones out of the grass.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

When planting trees, about 30' from a building is a wise minimum.

That's an odd generalization. In an urban environment there would be no trees.

 

[gggGary]

That's an odd generalization. In an urban environment there would be no trees.

Who claims city dwellers are wise?
;^)
I've dealt with several tree problems cuz the PO planted closer than 30'

I've scraped by with no serious damage so far. most of our landscape was planted 50-60 years ago the trees are showing their age, about half are gone now, more will be coming down in the next few years.
Life with trees what 'r you gonna do?
You may not have a choice but try to make friends with an arborist if you go ahead with trees planted closer than that.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Who claims city dwellers are wise?
;^)
I've dealt with several tree problems cuz the PO planted closer than 30'
View attachment 1178806
I've scraped by with no serious damage so far. most of our landscape was planted 50-60 years ago the trees are showing their age, about half are gone now, more will be coming down in the next few years.
Life with trees what 'r you gonna do?
You may not have a choice but try to make friends with an arborist if you go ahead with trees planted closer than that.

Another homeowner giving anecdotal advice in the homeowner helper forum...

 

[gggGary]

Another homeowner giving anecdotal advice in the homeowner helper forum...

You are so right! only a pro could correctly tell me; crap falls from trees.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Another homeowner giving anecdotal advice in the homeowner helper forum...

Since there are so few "pros" who actually reply to this forum, we non-pro-homeowners are often forced to fend for ourselves.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Since there are so few "pros" who actually reply to this forum, we non-pro-homeowners are often forced to fend for ourselves.

Generally speaking, I feel like the pros are pretty good about responding to questions on here. Most of the time if a pro gives an answer I agree with I'm not going to just repeat his advice. The op got some good advice on page one in regards to thinning and spiral pruning.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Generally speaking, I feel like the pros are pretty good about responding to questions on here. Most of the time if a pro gives an answer I agree with I'm not going to just repeat his advice. The op got some good advice on page one in regards to thinning and spiral pruning.

Maybe. I was going by the number of replies per thread on the main forum page.

But, as this thread progressed, the OP was forthcoming with additional relevant information that, imo, led to better options than trimming the trees.
Once we learned about the neighbors clear cutting all their pines, causing a water issue and soggy roots to the trees on OP's property, it seemed to me any money spent on trimming would be wasted since they appear to falling over from waterlogged roots anyway.
And then we found out the OP hates being a slave to this property and decided to move.

I'm just saying sometimes there's more than one correct answer to the question.
Wouldn't you agree?

 

[JR Hill]

Not to worry about all of this anyway. Sooner or later there will be yet another bug from Asia coming for whatever wood is your favorite and most valued.

Even though firs are invasive here they are my preference. Now this:
https://www.ksl.com/article/5101396...y-looks-at-new-insect-killing-utahs-fir-trees

 

[chainbrake]

I think I should figure out what a real arborist is, as opposed to "a guy who cuts down trees and sells them," and get a new assessment.
Yes, you should.
Jeff

Where we live, there are registered professional foresters with degrees and experience in forestry/forest management. If a person is living within or on the edge of raw forest land, they are very helpful with local tree species, tree farming, woodlots, understanding diseases/pests - the whole broad spectrum of issues regarding silviculture. That said, if one is in a suburban/urban environment, a local experienced arborist will probably give the best advice in dealing with dangerous (and potentially dangerous a few years down the road) trees. When it comes to dealing with individual trees, trained and experienced arborists (who understand the issues with the types of trees on your land) are really good to have around.

https://www.eforester.org/Main/Certification/Why_Hire_a_Certified_Professional.aspx

https://www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist/findanarborist

 

[chainbrake]

Further to my above:
From The US Forest Service's: Tree Owner's Manual. P. 28.
How to Hire an Arborist*

You can find arborists listed in the phone directory, usually under “Tree Service.” When selecting an arborist, look for the following qualifications:
Education (degree in arboriculture, urban forestry, forestry, horticulture)
Membership in Professional Organization(s) Organizations include the International Society of Arboriculture (ISA), Tree Care Industry Association (TCIA), American Society of Consulting Arborists (ASCA), and your state’s arborist association. Such membership demonstrates a willingness to stay current on techniques and information.
ISA Certification or State Certification/License Certified or State-licensed arborists are experienced professionals who have passed an examination and meet requirements for on-going education.
Proof of Insurance A reputable arborist carries personal and property damage insurance ($1 million per occurrence, $2 million aggregate) and worker’s compensation insurance ($1 million). If an arborist is uninsured, homeowners could be held responsible for damages and injuries that occur as a result of the tree work. Request certificates, and phone the insurance agency to verify. Ask if the entire job will be performed by employees of the tree care company bidding the job. If not, ask for insurance certificates from all independent contractors as well.
Necessary Permits and Licenses Some governmental agencies require contractors to apply for permits, a license, or both, before they are able to work. Be sure contractors comply with any local, state, provincial, or national laws. Other Advice • Ask for references and speak to former clients. • Get more than one estimate. • Do not automatically accept the lowest bid. • Never pay in advance. • Be wary of door-to-door sales. These are especially common after storms. Know that good arborists perform only accepted practices and wear safety equipment. For example, topping a tree and using climbing spikes for pruning are unacceptable. Safety equipment includes hard hats and ear protection. • Get it in writing. When will the work be started and completed? Who will be responsible for clean-up? What is the hourly rate for additional work?

https://www.treesaregood.org/treeowner/treeownersmanual

 

[RogerLemelin]

As this thread progressed, the OP was forthcoming with additional relevant information that, imo, led to better options than trimming the trees.
Once we learned about the neighbors clear cutting all their pines, causing a water issue and soggy roots to the trees on OP's property, it seemed to me any money spent on trimming would be wasted since they appear to falling over from waterlogged roots anyway.
And then we found out the OP hates being a slave to this property and decided to move.
I'm just saying sometimes there's more than one correct answer to the question.
Wouldn't you agree?

All true, including there being more that one solution. I hope I haven't confused anyone. There are several factors in my decision to stay or move. The danger of the trees is a major one, the straw that broke the camel's back with five severe windstorms in March and April.

My next dilemma is whether I can buy and and build a new house fast enough to escape from these trees. The answer is highly likely no.

 

[chainbrake]

All true, including there being more that one solution. I hope I haven't confused anyone. There are several factors in my decision to stay or move. The danger of the trees is a major one, the straw that broke the camel's back with five severe windstorms in March and April.

My next dilemma is whether I can buy and and build a new house fast enough to escape from these trees. The answer is highly likely no.

Are those trees worth money as logs? Can you find a good logger with a good danger faller/arborist who can take the trees down and pay money for the logs, leaving you money to use for replanting with a few deciduous trees that will never be mature before you die. After a couple of years, you could fence your woodlot (making sure to protect your new trees), allow a local sheep/goat/alpaca farmer to throw in a few animals, and let the farmer and his flock keep it trimmed for you - free of charge. That way, the property would only have to have a small lawn near the house and you could have the joy of watching the animals.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

All true, including there being more that one solution. I hope I haven't confused anyone. There are several factors in my decision to stay or move. The danger of the trees is a major one, the straw that broke the camel's back with five severe windstorms in March and April.

My next dilemma is whether I can buy and and build a new house fast enough to escape from these trees. The answer is highly likely no.

I hope things work out well for you and that you are able to dodge any more trouble from those trees.
Good luck.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Since there are so few "pros" who actually reply to this forum, we non-pro-homeowners are often forced to fend for ourselves.

I'll admit I don't respond much, especially when the responses are so varied that my opinion would be mixed whit the rest and who knows if they are a pro.
Jeff
It was a beautiful day!

 

[RogerLemelin]

Update. Apologies in advance as I know I'm drifting away from the topic of trees here, but I think you wise people could have some further advice and I would surely appreciate it.

I spent all of 2024 looking for either a new house or land to build a new house on to get away from my pine trees. Neither is forthcoming. There is a severe shortage of houses for sale in my area, and even less land! I next tried to find a logger to remove the trees. One guy came and said (a) there aren't enough trees for a logger to be interested in them and (b) they're too large and too close to the house to be removed without large machinery.

I need a workable Plan C to tide me over until I can move. The most important thing at this point is safety. I've decided to build a shelter in my basement/garage, which is about 3/4 below ground (meaning, completely underground at the rear, sloping to open on the front, as in a walk-out garage). Shelters are common in states prone to hurricanes and tornadoes, so this seems like a rational plan, no?

The shelter would serve as a place to work and sleep during long wind events. This is a 95-year-old house so the unfinished basement is not particularly pleasant.

This is a two-story cape with an attic. Thus, for a tree to fall and hit me in the basement, it would have to go through the roof, the ceiling below the roof, the second floor, and the first floor---4 layers of rafters and flooring. Some questions, given that fact:

(1) The carpenter who is going to build the shelter states that I would always be safe sleeping on the first floor of the house. I don't believe this is true. I think there are plenty of reports of people being killed by trees on the first floor of a two-story home. Hence I conclude that a basement shelter is necessary. What do you think about this?

(2) The carpenter also says that since I would be 100% safe in the basement with NO shelter, the shelter is for comfort only and therefore it doesn't need to meet any particular wind standards and it could be made of half-inch plywood or even OSB. It would be like simply finishing a part of the basement, maybe 6' x 8', to make a suitable place to sleep and work. Is he right about the materials?

Tornadoes and hurricanes are very rare in my area, though not unheard of. My main concern is frequent windstorms over 40 mph, especially when combined with heavy wet snow on the pines. My house is at the top of a hill and gets winds that are maybe 20 mph stronger than what the National Weather Service says is happening in my town.

Am I sure I need this shelter? I slept in the basement twice in the last week, so yes, especially as the winter storm season approaches. I lose a full day of work each time I have to go to a motel. I held business meetings in my car in a parking lot last week.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

I can't imagine a scenario where an experienced, competent, licensed & insured tree service company, couldn't take care of your problem trees. What's the holdup?