Advice on Hardy H4 Setup

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MVrana

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Hi All,
I've been using the site for both chainsaw and OWB info for some time now, and I've gotten tons of great info. Thanks. This is my first post. I need some advice with my OWB. Here's the situation. I'm heating an old farmhouse, about 3500 sq. ft. with a Hardy H4. There are two separate loops with Taco 009 pumps running to two separate furnaces/heat exchangers. the upstairs loop (furnace in attic) heats fine, as the area is small and the ceilings are at 8 ft. The downstairs loop (furnace in basement) tends to struggle a little due to larger area and 10 ft. ceilings. It is about 225 ft. with two 90's at the heat exhanger. House insulation is mediocre, and I've replace about 75% of the windows. At best I can get about 110-120 degree air at the registers in the downstairs, and that is with the OWB water set at 190. I don't think I am getting enough flow to the heat exchanger. Temp drop across the heat exchanger is roughly 30-35 degrees. Also, the guy who installed this system used only 5/8" kitec. So (finally getting to the question!), what can I do to improve flow? Do I have to replace the lines with something larger (say 1-1.25")? Or, could I just replace the pump with a larger one (say Taco 013)? One additional point. I get some snow melting above the lines. However, the temp drop from furnace to house does not seem to be substantial. Do you think this is a problem? Or, is it maybe just because I have three sets of lines (furnace 1, furnace 2, hot water heater)?
I'd really like to get this system tuned up. I'm burning a ton of wood, and the heating is just OK. When I bought this thing, I expected to be sweating from the heat.
One more question. Any Hardy users out there who run their pumps 24/7?
Thanks for your help!!
Mark
 
I have a h4 also I get about the same temp at the vents also!! I don't have a problem with it seems to keep the house at 76 with no prob i am running about 130 ft from boiler to coil and using a bell/gossett pl-45 pump except when it gets down around zero then it struggles!! The 30 degree heat loss through the coil is normal according to the old guy at hardy I have gone to a bigger pump and even tried 2 pumps on the same line and I don't see a difference!! I have all 3/4 pex tubing on my setup and for the amount of wood I burn it's a big wheelbarrow full in the morning and same at night!! Maybe some other people can tell us what there air vent temp is and how much heat loss through the coil they have !! Almost forgot! I installed a plus/minus 1 degree thermostat this fall and it keep the house more even now
 
You have six buried lines???? How big and how well insulated? Have you considered using the line for DHW also being used for floor radiant on the first level? Bigger pumps make bigger electric bills. I'd sure hate to feed the fire for 3500 ft sq of not well insulated home. OWB's are wood hogs as it is, have you ever blown insulation in the attic? This has been one cold winter I'll be happy to see end.
 
I have a h4 also I get about the same temp at the vents also!! I don't have a problem with it seems to keep the house at 76 with no prob i am running about 130 ft from boiler to coil and using a bell/gossett pl-45 pump except when it gets down around zero then it struggles!! The 30 degree heat loss through the coil is normal according to the old guy at hardy I have gone to a bigger pump and even tried 2 pumps on the same line and I don't see a difference!! I have all 3/4 pex tubing on my setup and for the amount of wood I burn it's a big wheelbarrow full in the morning and same at night!! Maybe some other people can tell us what there air vent temp is and how much heat loss through the coil they have !! Almost forgot! I installed a plus/minus 1 degree thermostat this fall and it keep the house more even now

Thanks for the reply dahmower. Sounds like we are in the same boat. I generally burn between one and two full furnace loads of wood a day, less when it is mild (>40 degrees)--probably 15 or more cords per year. I also have a better digital thermostat, it works great. Thanks again.
 
You have six buried lines???? How big and how well insulated? Have you considered using the line for DHW also being used for floor radiant on the first level? Bigger pumps make bigger electric bills. I'd sure hate to feed the fire for 3500 ft sq of not well insulated home. OWB's are wood hogs as it is, have you ever blown insulation in the attic? This has been one cold winter I'll be happy to see end.

Thanks for the reply atlarge54. Yes, there are six lines. With the Hardy stoves, the DHW coil is inside the furnace, so domestic water runs out cold and comes back hot. That set of lines also functions as an auto-fill for water when the furnace water level drops. I have two lines in one 4" conduit, and 4 lines in another 4" conduit. The individual lines within the conduits are covered with those foam pipe covers--nothing great. The house has had insualtion blown into the walls, it's so-so. There is also batting and blown-in insulation in the attic. But, it's a big, 90 year old farm house with 50+ windows (36 are new double-panes). You can olnly do so much. I'll also be happy to see this winter end!!!
Wish I had done more homework and reading on this site before getting my furnace. I've learned a lot since I had it installed three years ago. I'll do it myself next time, for sure. Thanks again for your ideas.
 
At best I can get about 110-120 degree air at the registers in the downstairs, and that is with the OWB water set at 190. One more question. Any Hardy users out there who run their pumps 24/7?

Mark

Mark, of the 10 Hardy installs within 5 miles of my house, none run the pump 24/7. Could be the local dealer does not think we need to, or could be we don't know any better :) You temps are not terrible, I get around 123-125 degrees, and heats our rancher up pretty quick. I decided to heat my domestic water with a water to water heat exchanger, so I only run two lines to my Hardy H2, and one fill line. Saved the cost of the PEX and insulation, and bought the water to water plate. When the guy wired my stove and thermostat relays, he left me a jumper wire if I want to run the pump 24/7. I was going to try it but never have yet. Seems to work well on demand when the house calls for heat. My FIL seems to think running the pump 24/7 you would use more wood, as the water travels through the loop it will get cooled down.
 
Mark, of the 10 Hardy installs within 5 miles of my house, none run the pump 24/7. Could be the local dealer does not think we need to, or could be we don't know any better :) You temps are not terrible, I get around 123-125 degrees, and heats our rancher up pretty quick. I decided to heat my domestic water with a water to water heat exchanger, so I only run two lines to my Hardy H2, and one fill line. Saved the cost of the PEX and insulation, and bought the water to water plate. When the guy wired my stove and thermostat relays, he left me a jumper wire if I want to run the pump 24/7. I was going to try it but never have yet. Seems to work well on demand when the house calls for heat. My FIL seems to think running the pump 24/7 you would use more wood, as the water travels through the loop it will get cooled down.

Thanks iCreek. I appreciate the info. I also don't run the pumps 24/7. My thoughts were the same as yours on that idea. The only thing I do wonder about is if keeping the pump on would help keep the entire volume of water in the jacket at a higher or more uniform temperature? I can measure quite a difference between the water temp at the top of the jacket (near the thermocouple) vs. the middle. I get 185+ right at the surface, but even 6 inches down the water temperature drops into the 150's. I wonder if other brands of OWB's have the thermocouple on the top or somewhere farther down into the jacket? I may need to run a quick experiment on my system and see what happens. I know one thing, though, I definitely don't want to increase the use of wood!

dahmower, sicne you run the pump 24/7, have you ever measured water temperatures at different places/depths inside the jacket? Just curious.
 
When I didn't run 24/7 mine would be almost boiling hot at the top and a lot cooler (still hot) toward the bottom! But now it's hot all around the jacket plus when the pump cycles you have cold air blowing out of the vents until the lines fill with hot water mine is 130 ft away so it takes a couple minutes. After running the pump 24/7 I don't have that , I have heat instantly, I didn't notice much more wood use that before either!!
 
When I didn't run 24/7 mine would be almost boiling hot at the top and a lot cooler (still hot) toward the bottom! But now it's hot all around the jacket plus when the pump cycles you have cold air blowing out of the vents until the lines fill with hot water mine is 130 ft away so it takes a couple minutes. After running the pump 24/7 I don't have that , I have heat instantly, I didn't notice much more wood use that before either!!

Good information. Thanks! I may set mine up to run that way for a couple of days and see how it works. Temps at night are supposed to be back in the teens this weekend, so the furnace will be working hard.
 
Have a Hardy stove and the coil is sweating due to water in it and AC operating. Drained system at stove but coil will not drain. Any suggestions
 

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