Advice on Techniques to Cut a Tree up (Tornado Damage)

[kkelly311]

Thought I would see how experienced people would approach this. The March tornadoes did a lot of damage near me and I have been helping a friend cut up all of his damage. One of the last trees to do is one where the root ball came up and the tree is laying pretty much parallel to the ground about 2 to 3 feet off the ground until it reaches the upper large branches that are supporting it. With very little equipment, I was wondering what techniques people may use. I thought maybe to build a pyramid of logs under it just before it branches out to keep the trunk parallel to the ground, then work on the top ...... then work back toward the root ball moving the pyramid back (and using a hydraulic jack) as logs are cut. This is about a 35" diameter oak tree. Not sure if it will try to stand back up as it is being cut. If we get lucky there may be an excavator or bobcat nearby, but I am planning on worst case scenario of nothing being there other than large saws and a jack. Thanks

 

[tree md]

I personally just work those blowdowns from the top back, reading the tension as I cut. I never stack log pyramids or break out hydrolic jacks... It is nice if you have a skid steer to lift it while you cut but not necessary. Pretty easy work when they are already on the ground for someone with experience. They can be deadly though... Especially to the inexperienced.

9 times out of 10 they will spring back up... And do it quick, fast and in a hurry.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

They can be deadly though... Especially to the inexperienced.

9 times out of 10 they will spring back up... And do it quick, fast and in a hurry.

Way too often I read about a child or pet getting killed when the rootball falls back in the hole. Keep the whole area (including the hole area ) secure while cutting.

Is the tree on flat or sloping ground? 35" diameter chunks falling from 3' high, you don't want to be downhill when they are cut loose.

You will need a BIG saw to safely cut those chunks. DO NOT get on top of the log once it is cut loose from the upper branches. Not only can it stand up fast enough to throw you, but it seems to do so unexpectedly.

Rick

 

[kkelly311]

the tree is on prett flat land ........it may be a little uphill

 

[husabud]

Often times the tree can be saved if the root plate is still intact. Be very careful. If you have an adjacent tree to pulley off of try up righting it and then put guy wires on it. With the right care, it should come back. Good luck. Or cut from the top down and keep everyone away from it. Look on YouTube, it has been shown what can happen.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

I would pay good money to see a 35" diameter Oak pulled back upright with a pulley. Please get a clue before posting. One Carby on here is enough.
Rick

 

[husabud]

Yeah thanks Rick. AA and I just got out of a meeting and decided you should join the group. We're not talking negative blocking here, and I guess I missed the 35" part, but anything is possible with the right tools and the know how. Yeah YouTube is probably to blame for more injuries than alcohol but the technique can be found there as well as the injuries. So BIOYA

 

[VA-Sawyer]

I guess you also missed the part about not having any heavy equipment. People don't read the whole post, but feel free to give advice on how to do it. Doing that is just DUMB because somebody could get hurt following that advice. I will always call BS when I read bad advice. If you don't like that then too bad.
Rick

 

[husabud]

Yep too bad. :taped:

 

[Big L]

Yes, I believe it's important to read the entire post carefully prior to giving any advise, that's for the professionals as well as those that think they are. I'm neither, but here's my experience with a 24" red oak blow-down last august.

When I first saw this scenario, I thought what the hell are the odds this would happen? The ~24" oak up-rooted to the North near a wetland crossing next to my new driveway, it fell onto a ~12" oak some 25' away snapping that oak near it's base, pushing that oak over, and coming to rest at the peak of a snapped off standing dead oak another 20' away. :msp_cursing: Keep in mind the 24" oak was near a 10' cliff, so the 12" oak's base was 10' lower. Consequently the majority of the now nearly horizontal 24" oak was 10 to 15' off the ground!

The trees stayed there for a good couple months ... hoping a good stiff wind would come along and bring down the snapped and leaning 12" oak. It didn't happen. Ultimately, a much younger friend with much better balance than I shimmied out onto the big oak and wrapped a chain around the smaller oak about 20' up ... and gave her a yank with the backhoe. Down it came. Bucked up the smaller oak, took down the standing deadwood, and then attacked the larger oak. Because the big oak was still so far off the ground, the first cut was to sever the tree from the stump, but not without first securing the tree to the the 19,000# backhoe. Sure didn't want that tree to end up at the bottom of the cliff! The cut was made with a well thought out escape plan, and fortunately, the root stump had little spring left in it ... and slowly laid back down to its shallow grave. Then was able to pull 10' sections, one at a time out of its cliff hanging position.

Moral of the story is that I would have never attempted this removal without heavy equipment .. never. Without seeing your situation kkelly , I question whether removing a 35" oak just 2 or 3' off the ground without heavy equipment is the best decision. Whatever you do, plan well, be careful, and I hope you have a good understanding of physics.

 

[himiler]

The different methods you mentioned would indeed work if you for a fact knew the amount of weight you were dealing with. Kind of crazy to have everything set up just to realize a crosstie or jack isn't set right or can't hold the weight and slips at the last moment allowing the whole house of cards to come crashing down.
A static large tree with tons of stored energy looks exactly the same as a static large tree with no stored energy. It even seems ok the split second before the energy is released . . . then all hell breaks loose and everybodys life is changed for the rest of their lives in a moment. You could either walk away laughing and talking about how close you and others came to death, or others could be attending the funeral you caused including being the guest of honor at your own.
Question: Do you know how to estimate the weight you're dealing with?
Steve

 

[ROPECLIMBER]

If it is already on the ground follow treemd's advice and work from the tip back, a power pole pruner comes in handy as to keep out of the roll if it rolls or springs back up,use caution tape and barricade the rootball and hole, keep wedges in you CHAIN SAW CHAPS rear pocket, wear hard hat, start by cutting (felling) the now upright limbs back to supporting forks then under cut knotch with wedges to keep from damaging saw bar as you work your way back down the trunk if it raises all the better, take small cunks off so that you can see the tendencey of the tree to raise or flopp, could do either, if it flopps then the rest of the trunk will have to be under cut knotched till the root ball balances it out, I have had them come up quick and make sure you arenot on the trunk when it does, Ie power pole saw, i did this cotton wood on a steep hill then for saftey we used a gcrs on tree behind it to set the root ball since it was next to a public trail in Colorado. the tree actually liffted more with each 16" log removed from about 30 feet and back. but I have had them spring back up dangerously quick or flopp. be careful.
Paul

View attachment 228527View attachment 228528View attachment 228529

 

[Da83moon]

Where in TN are you? Just wondering becuase I was helping a buddy saturday down in Ooltewah and had allot of the same scenarios as you. We had finally gotten the trees that we tangled up in the big trees cut off, and started working the bigger oaks and hickorys. We had the issue of the inexperienced (not that I'm the most) aruging with me over this same issue. We had the truck and trailer backed up where we were loading and it was close inough to the root ball to cause trouble when it came over. Several people siad, neah no way it would stand up. I told them if they wanted it cut then the obstacels and people have to be moved away. I used the tactics listed above, and started at the top. Sure enough I got down to the base and up she came. After that the guys were a bit more aware of the dangers that can happen if safety isn't taken. I took the approach and cut down a few inches, and then brought it up from the bottom because I could see that it was going to stand up on me.

 

[tree md]

If it is already on the ground follow treemd's advice and work from the tip back, a power pole pruner comes in handy as to keep out of the roll if it rolls or springs back up,use caution tape and barricade the rootball and hole, keep wedges in you CHAIN SAW CHAPS rear pocket, wear hard hat, start by cutting (felling) the now upright limbs back to supporting forks then under cut knotch with wedges to keep from damaging saw bar as you work your way back down the trunk if it raises all the better, take small cunks off so that you can see the tendencey of the tree to raise or flopp, could do either, if it flopps then the rest of the trunk will have to be under cut knotched till the root ball balances it out, I have had them come up quick and make sure you arenot on the trunk when it does, Ie power pole saw, i did this cotton wood on a steep hill then for saftey we used a gcrs on tree behind it to set the root ball since it was next to a public trail in Colorado. the tree actually liffted more with each 16" log removed from about 30 feet and back. but I have had them spring back up dangerously quick or flopp. be careful.
Paul

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Yes, wedges are a very good idea to help out with those. I did so many of those blowdowns over the Summer I lost count.

I had one job where I had 2 36" Oaks on the ground. I bid the job for three trees but there were actually 5 of them. There were two more underneath the large Oaks that I could not even see. I was using my 660 with a 36" bar. I got it pinched in one of the larger trees on my last cut near the root ball. I had no wedges with me so I had to break out my 044 to make a relief cut. Wedges would have come in real handy.

I did all 5 of those trees with a skid steer. I cut the trunks in 10' sections and the skid steer grabbed them and slung them into the wooded area like rag dolls. 5 blowdowns in 6 hours. Made $1800. Not bad for 3/4 day of work.

 

[ROPECLIMBER]

Sounds like Rita in Silsbie in 05 and Ike in north houston in 08, only we didnt have a skid steer lots of loading and dumping Out front for fema, View attachment 228541View attachment 228542View attachment 228543

The one hung up pine I qouted to move the brush and leav the logs and when we got it piced down I had droped a 2 ft round 4-6 " from a gas meter that was burried under all the crap, I had my Partner James go look and he said Whew, LSOB, In 05 i bought an old skid steer but all the work dried up and never used it, haled it home and used it 3-4 times put alot of money and tres and trailer and sold it 2years later for a loss, in 08 before spring before IKe,
Paul

 

[tree md]

Sounds like Rita in Silsbie in 05 and Ike in north houston in 08, only we didnt have a skid steer lots of loading and dumping Out front for fema, View attachment 228541View attachment 228542View attachment 228543

The one hung up pine I qouted to move the brush and leav the logs and when we got it piced down I had droped a 2 ft round 4-6 " from a gas meter that was burried under all the crap, I had my Partner James go look and he said Whew, LSOB, In 05 i bought an old skid steer but all the work dried up and never used it, haled it home and used it 3-4 times put alot of money and tres and trailer and sold it 2years later for a loss, in 08 before spring before IKe,
Paul

I know a lot of guys that travel and do storm work. They buy equipment in the state they are working in then sell it before they leave and write it off for taxes. They don't look at it as a loss. They just look at it as the cost of doing business. I don't really travel to storms much unless there are circumstances like there were for me last Summer in Alabama. I have a lot of family there that asked me to come down and clean up their storm damage. I like to use local guys and put their equipment to work. It pumps much needed money back into the local economy.

 

[ROPECLIMBER]

yea both storms were family with trees down then stayed but all the rentals were gone and didnt have money to buy till it was all done still work but the money dried up, we did mostly hangers and stacked out front, really poorboying it, made for long hard days but we worked for about 3-4 months on and off both storms, didnt really plan on that but kept going home and bringing more stuff back, bought the skid steer for one 18,000 job that the insurance didn't come through on, they had 7 acres of downed trees,
PaulView attachment 228544

 

[tree md]

Don't even get me started on the insurance companies!!!

 

[ROPECLIMBER]

Yea They ended up getting like 2300 for the few on structures didnt even cover the one over the well thaqt needed a crane for and they bought a 4x4 tractor at 0 down and did it themselves little by little, left the skid steer for sale for hire out front of my Moms in Silsbee til after new years, then had to suttle dump truck plus smallcar +++ took three trips to get every thing back, had paid help % with them driving something and one took a bus back "cause he was in luv" left me hanging, I think if I had knoked that many doors and done that many quotes here i would have more residual so your buddies can have the storm chasing,
Paul

 

[lfnh]

Pics would be useful.
Equipment -trucks, winch, snatch blocks and saws ?
Experience with windthrowns ?