treemandan
Tree Freak
If there is room I would like to attend.
Aerial Rescue
- Thread starter 2treeornot2tree
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If there is room I would like to attend.
2treeornot2tree
Dont cry, just do it
Which Class? the one in jersey on the 17th or the one i am going to teach?
treeman75
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dont forget your speedo!
2treeornot2tree
Dont cry, just do it
Thats just kinda sick that you want to see me in a speedo instead of all the beautiful half naked girls.
treemandan
Tree Freak
The FREE one!
Let me know if you want to help me on this poplar TD, hoping to start on it this week.
treeman75
Addicted to ArboristSite
I forgot the LOL
climberjones
ArboristSite Guru
Knowing the fellers around here they would prolly barber chair the tree i was hanging in!:hmm3grin2orange: I used to be a fire fighter and they would send all of us to train in aerial rescue but by the time the guys would get in a situation they needed it for they would all forget how to do it! You have to apply what you learn or practice some drills every now and again or its worthless IMO
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2treeornot2tree
Dont cry, just do it
The class in jersey on the 17th has 4 openings left. Have to be paid by the 14th.
arborjockey
ArboristSite Guru
Good luck with the work shop. Cool that they came to a tree guy. When I did tower work my boss always said to get the man on the ground WELL before the firejockeys show up. We climb everyday and have experience in rigging. They do a workshop 1 time a year. When they show up they take over and ground everyone. Which isnt good since most tree guys are the best bet for an aerial rescue. In a tree saddle your time is very limited. My 2 cents..... Shoot up, set your climb line for a straight descent below victim, approach from behind, throw your lanyard under one arm and over the apposing shoulder, wrap your legs around him, cut his line, and zip down. Or just notch the tree then begin back cut.:msp_scared:
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
I already know if I got injured in the tree I am on my own. I at lest like to explain how a figure 8 works to the ground guys. That would be my only hope for a quick rescue. I had a guy we thought was having a heart attack in the tree. It was a cluster f_ _k. He didn't speak or understand English. It would of went smoother if he was unconscious. We found out later he had a bad cramp. Kind of a wake up call though.
arborjockey;3526943 cut his line said:
Groundcover
ArboristSite Lurker
Great that you are offering the training to the FD ! I had our local tree company come to our dept. and did the same thing. Those guys are top notch and train this all the time. It became clear to me that the guys I want up there are the guys that are up there every day ! They are twenty pounds lighter and spend their days on ropes. My vision was to create a regional high rescue team,kind of like how our dive team was modeled. Have a team with pagers with their own tone that ,if available , would respond directly to the scene and work with the local town FD to make the rescue. The premise would be to have the best climbers from all the local tree companies. This would give these guys a chance to train together,and if they ever needed help one of their own might be able to save the day. In the fire service this rescue is for us a low frequency ,high risk operation,we just don't do it enough to be good at it,at least not in most smaller departments. The idea isn't dead yet but it has slowed to a crawl as even our regional dive team has shut down and is trying to regroup. That and the climber that I had lined up to spearhead the tree side of things was injured on the job and is out of the picture.
Just an idea,maybe you could make it work in your area,good luck !
Just an idea,maybe you could make it work in your area,good luck !
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have a few years as a caving/mountain rescue worker and also some industral access work in past. I've just re-certified for my tree aerial rescue ticket in aus which is a necessary ticket on a lot of council jobs, and most government jobs too. You do a few basic types of rescue - a 'lift' of the climber using the climbers tail (to simulate a semi rescue from entrapment or similar), climbing the tail of the climbers line, climbing your own line and rigging a rescue system above the climber, and spiked rescue. My personal perspective is that the training is of little or no value for its intended purpose.
The training is based around using a 'rescue kit' comprised of a gri gri, a petzl ascender, couple pulleys, slings, a soft link, a rope, a micro pulley and a few other widgets. I've never worked on a crew that had actually bought one of these kits, and I'm sure if anyone did it would quickly be raided by the crew for the widgets. Secondly, as already noted, very few crews have a second climber being paid to watch the first climber. The only person with the rescue training is usually the one in the tree. The techniques taught are too slow to be useful in any type of situation where you could envisage them being necessary. If there were a real and immediate need of rescue (arterial bleeding, crushing/pinning, unconsciousness/entrapment in ropes) then the climber would be dead before anybody on the ground could even get a harness on, let alone get up the tree and perform the rescue.
In most emergencies I have seen or heard discussion of, the climber was able to successfully get themselves quicky to the ground. Even in cases of severe cuts, loss of fingers and servere bleeding. The only cases I've heard of with a successful 'help out a stuck climber fast' were done on spikes.
The paperwork is mostly just a duty of care obligation invented by lawyers to prevent large companies/governments from having any legal liability when employing someone to do a potentially dangerous job. From that perspective, the effectiveness of the training methods really isn't very important.
If you're serious about safety then the best thing you can do at this point in time is to rig your line with a ground lower off. There are lots of ways to do this, rigging your climb line through a pulley/friction saver or whatever you like, then back to the ground with a second line attached to a tree/truck/whatever with a lower off device is cheap and effective. Someone can lower you off in less time than it takes to put a harness on, and the training is easy and straightforward. Even groundies can do it ;-)
Shaun
The training is based around using a 'rescue kit' comprised of a gri gri, a petzl ascender, couple pulleys, slings, a soft link, a rope, a micro pulley and a few other widgets. I've never worked on a crew that had actually bought one of these kits, and I'm sure if anyone did it would quickly be raided by the crew for the widgets. Secondly, as already noted, very few crews have a second climber being paid to watch the first climber. The only person with the rescue training is usually the one in the tree. The techniques taught are too slow to be useful in any type of situation where you could envisage them being necessary. If there were a real and immediate need of rescue (arterial bleeding, crushing/pinning, unconsciousness/entrapment in ropes) then the climber would be dead before anybody on the ground could even get a harness on, let alone get up the tree and perform the rescue.
In most emergencies I have seen or heard discussion of, the climber was able to successfully get themselves quicky to the ground. Even in cases of severe cuts, loss of fingers and servere bleeding. The only cases I've heard of with a successful 'help out a stuck climber fast' were done on spikes.
The paperwork is mostly just a duty of care obligation invented by lawyers to prevent large companies/governments from having any legal liability when employing someone to do a potentially dangerous job. From that perspective, the effectiveness of the training methods really isn't very important.
If you're serious about safety then the best thing you can do at this point in time is to rig your line with a ground lower off. There are lots of ways to do this, rigging your climb line through a pulley/friction saver or whatever you like, then back to the ground with a second line attached to a tree/truck/whatever with a lower off device is cheap and effective. Someone can lower you off in less time than it takes to put a harness on, and the training is easy and straightforward. Even groundies can do it ;-)
Shaun
squad143
Tree Guy
I'd bet that 99.9% of the Fire Departments out there would have a difficult time performing a quick aerial rescue where they could not get an Aerial/Platform into. Your only luck would be if there was a tree guy on the crew. Better still, if he was trained in aerial rescue.
A friend that climbs for me (a firefighter on another shift) responded to a call years ago for a plane into a tree. When they arrived, there was a small plane suck in a tree. Luckily my buddy is also a pilot who has built a couple of his own airplanes. He was able to secure the plane, shut off the fuel and electrical systems and lower the polite to the ground. A career call for sure.
Rocko
ArboristSite Lurker
The first thing to do on every job is to pre set a second life line,attatch it to the saddle,have your spurs at the bottom of the line ready to go.If you need to perform a rescue here are the steps.
1 - get to the climber
2 face the climber,hook a biner from your center ring to his center ring
3 take your lanyard and run it over his right shoulder and around and under his left armpit and back to your side d ring
4 take his lanyard and run it over your left shoulder and around your back under your right armpit and back to your side d ring. (steps 3 and 4 will keep an unconscious man fro flopping around)
5 you should be able to grab his friction knot and yours and come down without cutting his rope,if it is to slow and awkward than cut his rope.
A couple more points ,you should be facing each other so his face is not sliding down the tree(unless you don't care for the guy),you should practice this as you should be able to get him down and start cpr within 6 seconds as that is when brain damage sets in(good luck with that) as you are performing this another man should be calling 911 with the cell phone that you have placed close to the working area for emergencies(send an ambulance bacause the firemen will not know how to do a tree rescue) If it is an electrical accident than your very first call should be to the utility,you should say mayday,mayday,mayday dump the feeder , give them the adress, but hopefully you called them before to let them know you are working around there lines .
Hope this helps
1 - get to the climber
2 face the climber,hook a biner from your center ring to his center ring
3 take your lanyard and run it over his right shoulder and around and under his left armpit and back to your side d ring
4 take his lanyard and run it over your left shoulder and around your back under your right armpit and back to your side d ring. (steps 3 and 4 will keep an unconscious man fro flopping around)
5 you should be able to grab his friction knot and yours and come down without cutting his rope,if it is to slow and awkward than cut his rope.
A couple more points ,you should be facing each other so his face is not sliding down the tree(unless you don't care for the guy),you should practice this as you should be able to get him down and start cpr within 6 seconds as that is when brain damage sets in(good luck with that) as you are performing this another man should be calling 911 with the cell phone that you have placed close to the working area for emergencies(send an ambulance bacause the firemen will not know how to do a tree rescue) If it is an electrical accident than your very first call should be to the utility,you should say mayday,mayday,mayday dump the feeder , give them the adress, but hopefully you called them before to let them know you are working around there lines .
Hope this helps
Great thread! I have been asking a very good friend (paramedic/firefighter) what her company would do if I was 60+ ft in a tree in someone's back yard incompacitated for a month now. Her answer was we would bring the ladder truck. Uh? What? Do the math. No ladder around here is getting near me. We are trained in rope techniques and I can tie a Munter faster than anyone in the dept she says. Boy do I feel safe.
I have been wanting to implement some sort of program here locally to train these depts. I am however not " Certified" to do such a thing. As I see it if I have been trained and I can pass on the info and demonstrate techniques then aren't they that much better off ? Seriously WTF? It's my a s s on the line not there's. I feel as if all districts should have ,as mentioned above, a aerial rescue team similar to a dive team. I live on the ocean and all the local depts have boats and trained dive staff. Any aerial rescue team? No. It may take a little money from the depts to have a "certified" instructor training, ut isn't it worth it? Hell, I offered for free and was told no. I guess they would rather save Grandma rotten crotch from her stroke instead of the guy with two toddlers that will be paying taxes for 30+ more yrs than she would be alive. Ok done.
I am glad somebody's public service sector is willing to learn!
I have been wanting to implement some sort of program here locally to train these depts. I am however not " Certified" to do such a thing. As I see it if I have been trained and I can pass on the info and demonstrate techniques then aren't they that much better off ? Seriously WTF? It's my a s s on the line not there's. I feel as if all districts should have ,as mentioned above, a aerial rescue team similar to a dive team. I live on the ocean and all the local depts have boats and trained dive staff. Any aerial rescue team? No. It may take a little money from the depts to have a "certified" instructor training, ut isn't it worth it? Hell, I offered for free and was told no. I guess they would rather save Grandma rotten crotch from her stroke instead of the guy with two toddlers that will be paying taxes for 30+ more yrs than she would be alive. Ok done.I am glad somebody's public service sector is willing to learn!
mattfr12
The Bulldog
Great thread! I have been asking a very good friend (paramedic/firefighter) what her company would do if I was 60+ ft in a tree in someone's back yard incompacitated for a month now. Her answer was we would bring the ladder truck. Uh? What? Do the math. No ladder around here is getting near me. We are trained in rope techniques and I can tie a Munter faster than anyone in the dept she says. Boy do I feel safe.
I am glad somebody's public service sector is willing to learn!
Truthfully not to many people are gonna have the nads to get a climber out of a tree in a backyard. Especially if their up 80 foot. It would take another climber. Kinda why you have to be super careful. Even if their trained in Areil rescue its gonna take them a while to get to you.
2treeornot2tree
Dont cry, just do it
Its not going to be a super fast rescue. Its gonna take 911 anywhere from 30 seconds to 1.5 mins to dispatch the call. 5-7 mins for the volunteers fire engine to leave the station, and another 8 mins if you are at the outside of our 50 square mile first due area. But my fire department wants to be as efficant as possible. Not saying the FD would be able to do everything all the time, but at least they will have a basic idea good / bad crotchs for rope placement, and how to advance there rescue line up a tree without a throw ball. You could set a srt line pretty quick and accend up it, do a pick off and bring down the person. I would only cut there line as a last resort. You can use a pussik loop and make a 2 to1 and pick a person up enough that you can just unclip there system.
squad143
Tree Guy
Our department is field testing the Big Shot right now. Our Special Operations training division was looking at line guns, for advancing high lines across rivers, and I recommended the big shot. I brought mine in and demoed it for them. So they purchased one and are having the guys try it out.
2treeornot2tree
Dont cry, just do it
I am working on ideas of how we can use whats on the engine to make a make shift throw line. Tie the rope to a hose fitting and throw that. idk. Can us a pike pole to advance, but it would be very slow to have to hook, and un hook ever 15 feet or so.
