Alaskan Mill First Cut Setup

[Logan_M0822]

How does everyone set up their first cut for an Alaskan Mill?
I screw two large square boards into either end of the log and put a strait ladder over the top to cruise along with my guide. Always triple check to avoid a twist and try to keep it relatively level.
If the log rolls a lot I just put felling wedges at the bottom.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I find ladders have too much flex to rely on a setup like that. Anytime i have more than two or three ladder rungs unsupported I use shims between the rungs and wood to eliminate flex. On a short piece like that you can get away with your system but not any longer than that. I often screw the rungs right on to the wood and use shims to keep it level and straight cause that's the way I started. It's way too easy to twist the ladder screwing it down that way though unless you take care to shim it perfectly. I also use metal end brackets that slot on to my ladder rails. There's tons of this info in this thread, do a search in the thread for "first cuts" or "first cut brackets" - http://www.arboristsite.com/threads/cs-milling-101-hints-tips-and-tricks.93458/
Not sure why it's not a stickie at the top of the Milling forum anymore. BobL who started the Milling 101 thread stopped posting regularly, but his knowledge posted on here all put together is as good a book on chainsaw milling as you could ever dream of and will save any novice a ton of hit and miss efforts. Searching this site is near hopeless using the site search mechanism, I can't even find where the end brackets are I built. Here they are again. They only work for relatively even logs, but I also use them every cut to ensure every slab stays dead straight. I also have other brackets more like yours but with slots the ladder sits down in, for first cuts on highly uneven logs.

 

[sean donato]

I use the ladder method myself, like lo pro said just need to be cautious of twisting the ladder when screwing it down.

 

[Logan_M0822]

I find ladders have too much flex to rely on a setup like that. Anytime i have more than two or three ladder rungs unsupported I use shims between the rungs and wood to eliminate flex. On a short piece like that you can get away with your system but not any longer than that. I often screw the rungs right on to the wood and use shims to keep it level and straight cause that's the way I started. It's way too easy to twist the ladder screwing it down that way though unless you take care to shim it perfectly. I also use metal end brackets that slot on to my ladder rails. There's tons of this info in this thread, do a search in the thread for "first cuts" or "first cut brackets" - http://www.arboristsite.com/threads/cs-milling-101-hints-tips-and-tricks.93458/
Not sure why it's not a stickie at the top of the Milling forum anymore. BobL who started the Milling 101 thread stopped posting regularly, but his knowledge posted on here all put together is as good a book on chainsaw milling as you could ever dream of and will save any novice a ton of hit and miss efforts. Searching this site is near hopeless using the site search mechanism, I can't even find where the end brackets are I built. Here they are again. They only work for relatively even logs, but I also use them every cut to ensure every slab stays dead straight. I also have other brackets more like yours but with slots the ladder sits down in, for first cuts on highly uneven logs.

View attachment 1153822

Where did you purchase that?

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Oh might have been confusing in suggesting there was a book if that’s what you mean - it could and should be a book but isn’t. But well worth reading nearly everything BobL has posted on here. Otherwise all the brackets I built myself if you mean that.

 

[GeneralKayoss]

I got lucky and already had an older, really heavily built 18" wide 8' ladder made out of 4 inch I beams. It doesn't flex a bit and makes set up really easy. The rungs are also offset to one side so you can flip it for a deeper/shallower guide cut.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I got lucky and already had an older, really heavily built 18" wide 8' ladder made out of 4 inch I beams. It doesn't flex a bit and makes set up really easy.

Anything you can do to create a rigid “bridge saw” setup for the first cut that needs no shims is most ideal. I beams or 2”+ square or rectangular steel tubing w welded rungs are the best. Even 11 gauge unistrut has some flex over an 8’ span, I found

 

[GeneralKayoss]

Anything you can do to create a rigid “bridge saw” setup for the first cut that needs no shims is most ideal. I beams or 2”+ square or rectangular steel tubing w welded rungs are the best. Even 11 gauge unistrut has some flex over an 8’ span, I found

So far I've not felt the need to use wedges under this thing, but whenever I've found myself having any sort of long span on the guide cut, I just crank my small saw up and trim the humps down. I screw the rungs directly into the wood. Usually 4 screws is all I need for perfectly straight slabs. I haven't done anything wide enough yet where the rails actually rest on the log.

I like those brackets you built, just simple notched aluminum angle?

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I like those brackets you built, just simple notched aluminum angle?

I do a lot of small saw trimming of major lumps too both top and side. I’m not that committed to pure live edge, if a branch knob bulges way too wide, I trim it and reshape live edge into it later when I’m working the slab. Yeah, brackets are just 1.5” aluminum angle notched w an angle grinder. Really simple and work great, especially for every cut. Lotta people just want to get it done and think it’s a waste of time to use ladder every cut. Each to their own. For me it makes it much easier to start each cut straight and keep each cut from drifting more and more off if the first cut isn’t dead straight. I was screwing the rungs right into each slab initially to hold the ladder in place, leaving a few small screw holes in one side of each slab. Using the end brackets let me just put small screw holes in the end faces which eventually get trimmed off. Also I like giving the saw a rest between each slab and the little extra time to undo the brackets and ladder and set them again keeps my saw from ever overheating.

 

[Logan_M0822]

I do a lot of small saw trimming of major lumps too both top and side. I’m not that committed to pure live edge, if a branch knob bulges way too wide, I trim it and reshape live edge into it later when I’m working the slab. Yeah, brackets are just 1.5” aluminum angle notched w an angle grinder. Really simple and work great, especially for every cut. Lotta people just want to get it done and think it’s a waste of time to use ladder every cut. Each to their own. For me it makes it much easier to start each cut straight and keep each cut from drifting more and more off if the first cut isn’t dead straight. I was screwing the rungs right into each slab initially to hold the ladder in place, leaving a few small screw holes in one side of each slab. Using the end brackets let me just put small screw holes in the end faces which eventually get trimmed off. Also I like giving the saw a rest between each slab and the little extra time to undo the brackets and ladder and set them again keeps my saw from ever overheating.

How do you screw the ladder into the log through the rungs? Did you drill holes? How do you level it off? Do you just get a level and only screw the ladder down until it’s level?

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

How do you screw the ladder into the log through the rungs? Did you drill holes? How do you level it off? Do you just get a level and only screw the ladder down until it’s level?

Drill holes thru rungs, yes. Keep screws handy in 1/4” increments from 2.25 to 4” to use as needed. I just eyeball level it and put shims anywhere it can bend and twist so it doesn’t. (The ladder only needs to be roughly in line w the log so you get the most slabs out of it, it doesn’t need to be leveled.) You need a light touch to shim enough it won’t bend down w screwing but not so much that you’re pushing it up anywhere. The heavier duty the ladder the better, my light old one flexed way too easy. My new ladder should be better. Ladders aren’t ideal to me but they’re light and available cheap second hand so I keep using them til I make a heavier rigid steel one someday.

 

[Sloughfoot]

Straight 2x6s and 3" all purpose screws.

 

[Logan_M0822]

Straight 2x6s and 3" all purpose screws.

How do you attach the 2x6s? Are the flat on the log or standing on the 1.5” side?

 

[Logan_M0822]

I do a lot of small saw trimming of major lumps too both top and side. I’m not that committed to pure live edge, if a branch knob bulges way too wide, I trim it and reshape live edge into it later when I’m working the slab. Yeah, brackets are just 1.5” aluminum angle notched w an angle grinder. Really simple and work great, especially for every cut. Lotta people just want to get it done and think it’s a waste of time to use ladder every cut. Each to their own. For me it makes it much easier to start each cut straight and keep each cut from drifting more and more off if the first cut isn’t dead straight. I was screwing the rungs right into each slab initially to hold the ladder in place, leaving a few small screw holes in one side of each slab. Using the end brackets let me just put small screw holes in the end faces which eventually get trimmed off. Also I like giving the saw a rest between each slab and the little extra time to undo the brackets and ladder and set them again keeps my saw from ever overheating.

I looked at some pictures online of how other people did it and saw two interesting options.
The first wax to use U-Nails over the rungs. Just 4 - 5 to keep it stable.
The other way was to use plumbing strain over the rungs.
Any thoughts?

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I looked at some pictures online of how other people did it and saw two interesting options.
The first wax to use U-Nails over the rungs. Just 4 - 5 to keep it stable.
The other way was to use plumbing strain over the rungs.
Any thoughts?

I've used plumbing straps on occasion. They work fine. We just talking first cut still? No matter how you do it, the all important thing is it's shimmed well so you can't bend/twist the ladder screwing it down. I'll probably use plumbing straps on the new ladder rather than drill holes in the rungs, or I'll just use my end brackets.

 

[Logan_M0822]

I've used plumbing straps on occasion. They work fine. We just talking first cut still? No matter how you do it, the all important thing is it's shimmed well so you can't bend/twist the ladder screwing it down. I'll probably use plumbing straps on the new ladder rather than drill holes in the rungs, or I'll just use my end brackets.

Yes still talking about the first cut.
Im interesting in finding out where you got your end brackets?
I think if the ladder is strapped/screwed directly to the log then as long as there are no huge knots (which I could always trim off) then it should not be too hard to keep the ladder stable. Using shims would defiantly be helpful.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Yes still talking about the first cut.
Im interesting in finding out where you got your end brackets?
I think if the ladder is strapped/screwed directly to the log then as long as there are no huge knots (which I could always trim off) then it should not be too hard to keep the ladder stable. Using shims would defiantly be helpful.

I make my end brackets from 1.5" aluminum angle, notch them with an angle grinder so they'll slide on to ladder rails. Make the piece of angle 3/4" wider than the width between the ladder rails and make each notch about 3/8" deep. You push one side of the bracket on at an angle so the slot goes on the rail, then you can rotate the other end around so it slots on the ladder rail on that side. Screwing directly into the log is pretty rock solid with just a pair of straps/screws on a rung at one end of the log and at the other, maybe one pair in the middle. As much spacing as you can get between the two straps/screws on a rung the better. Locks the ladder down good, no flex at all. I often drill holes in my shims and screw down through them into the log to hold them in place, the vibration of the ladder from the mill is so bad that shims always shake free otherwise.

 

[Sloughfoot]

How do you attach the 2x6s? Are the flat on the log or standing on the 1.5” side?

I attach leveled ~16" 2Xs on each log end, attach standing 2x6 runners to those so they sit just off to the top and sides of the log. Longer than 8 ft. or so I lay a 2X flat midway on top of the log and screw the runners to that. Attaching a 2X midway keeps the runners from sagging down and from swaying side to side. Something like a TimberLOK fastener works better for going into the log, all purpose screws for 2X to 2X.

 

[Logan_M0822]

I attach leveled ~16" 2Xs on each log end, attach standing 2x6 runners to those so they sit just off to the top and sides of the log. Longer than 8 ft. or so I lay a 2X flat midway on top of the log and screw the runners to that. Attaching a 2X midway keeps the runners from sagging down and from swaying side to side. Something like a TimberLOK fastener works better for going into the log, all purpose screws for 2X to 2X.

I’d love to see a picture if you have one but I think I have a good understanding of what that looks like. It’s awesome to see the level of engineering that everyday people will come up with for things like this.

 

[Sloughfoot]

I’d love to see a picture if you have one but I think I have a good understanding of what that looks like. It’s awesome to see the level of engineering that everyday people will come up with

Sorry, don't have a pic. Start messing with it and it'll work itself out for you. Did for me.