Alder, Alder, Alder

[tramp bushler]

I didn't get into teck until I started working above the Circle out west. Pretty nice be able to communicate with my wife daily and not have it be a major hassle .
Heck I sent a text while I typed this reply.

I'll figure out how to turn pics up right with this yet. .
Had to shovel out the wood stove this evening. Wife wants a fire in the mornings. 30 degree.this morning.

 

[northmanlogging]

yous guys are making me rethink how much wood I have in the wood shed, hope its enough, Still gotta modify the generator to fit the tractor three point and pto fill the propane tanks and lay in some extra fuel...

 

[tramp bushler]

Termination Dust in some of the Coast Range ..

 

[ArtB]

re:

we're burning it right now

There was a follow on post about how HO do not realize how much mills are now paying for large alder (>18"). My neighbor down by Mossyrock has a furniture factory paying him $1100 cord for >18" alder in approx 16 ft lengths, then the furniture factory pays for shipping to the East coast on top of that.

40 years ago thought alder was a 'weed', even burned some of that 30" dia stuff. Just letting it grow now, just burn the twisted/branchy stuff. One stump in back is on it's 3rd 'contribution' to the firewood pile - 1st was just the 20" bole and such, 2nd (about 15 years ago) were the 6 or so 8" 'volunteer' shoots, now there are about 10 8" sprouts ready to cut again.

 

[tramp bushler]

Now that's truly a renewable resource.

 

[slowp]

I find it hard to grow straight alder. That's what the high priced stuff is--fairly straight.
I have transplanted alder and will interplant cedar next year. That's on a small little bit of former yard.

 

[tramp bushler]

I think Red Alder needs to grow in a tight stand to grow straight.

 

[northmanlogging]

Is there such a thing as a straight alder? Don't think I've ever seen one, If there is they should put up a sign and mark it on the tourist maps...(so my saw can find its way there and cut it down)

 

[tramp bushler]

I've seen lots of them in Southeast.
I don't think I've seen one over 80' tall. But they were relatively young, in the 40 year old range.

 

[northmanlogging]

Yeah the little ones but who cares about the little ones?... except foresters... and those kids that make mini yarders out of rc cars:msp_smile:

 

[Humptulips]

I didn't get into teck until I started working above the Circle out west. Pretty nice be able to communicate with my wife daily and not have it be a major hassle .
Heck I sent a text while I typed this reply.

I'll figure out how to turn pics up right with this yet. .
Had to shovel out the wood stove this evening. Wife wants a fire in the mornings. 30 degree.this morning.

Tramp,
I'm very non-tech. I do have a cell but rarely use it.
I can however tell you how to get your pictures turned right side up.







Turn you camera-phone sideways when you take the picture.:msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin:

 

[slowp]

Alder doesn't have a very long life. It grows fast. My patch that I started working on for fun and is around 5 years old, is 10 feet tall. The ones that I moved last year, are knee high at one year. I need to do some work on those now that they look like they will survive. I've cut some of the young stuff and made rustic trellises for roses.

One of the big landowners planted alder in a clearcut. Who'da thunk that a few years ago?

I have been told that alder won't do well when replanted after a rotation of alder has been harvested.
Does anybody know if this is true?

 

[madhatte]

I have been told that alder won't do well when replanted after a rotation of alder has been harvested.
Does anybody know if this is true?

Seems to me it would do well, especially with Frankia populations pre-established in the soil. I'll ask some experts and see what they have to say.

 

[OlympicYJ]

I think Red Alder needs to grow in a tight stand to grow straight.

You are correct tramp. Tight growing alder gives you your straight sticks. The tightness also allows it to self prune quite high and given ideal self pruning you get your alder slicers. The alder plantations that are coming up are phenomenal in respect to straight, limb free stems. If allowed to go long enough you'd have allot of nice slicer wood in those plantations. Slicers are going around $1200 a thou last time I checked, almost 5 months ago. The trick to growing alder is through thinning because as soon as you get crown closure, upward growth slows down significantly; and can stagnate if not done at the right time.

One reason its so hard to find straight alder is because it likes to grow toward the light. Only trees deep inside the stand will be "straight," for an alder that is. lol

Northman... I know where there's a nice straight stand of approx 25yr old alder, one of the first experimental plantations in the country, but I don't think Weyco would appreciate your enthusiasm for killin their alder

Slowp:

Alder does better on soil that is lacking in nitrogen. Being a nitrogen fixer they love mineral soil that has low levels of nitrogen, such as after a conifer harvest. This is what makes them a great pioneer species. I do believe they have a built in response not to germinate in high nitrogen areas. Maybe someone that knows more about this than I could add substance or correct me? When used in rotation with conifer it's a great way to get some natural fert done. The only problem is planted alder cannot grow just anywhere. Bottom ground, for instance, near water has a more persistent frost layer and is hell on the roots. Benches above rivers are prime for plantation alder. Basically your best fir ground is your best alder ground. There was a conference done at the UW, if memory serves, that combined lots of Alder research into one document that can be found on tree search.

Alder is a passion of mine... strange I know lol Alder is definitely an ugly duckling story lol

 

[slowp]

I have a strange piece of ground. It is only 5 acres, and not much flat to it. My house is on top of a rocky knob. The soil is pumice and drains fast. But cedar sprout up naturally here. Alder would take over if I didn't mow and weedwhack. It sprouts up in any place that doesn't have grass planted--including the flower beds.

I can't figure out the cedar thing. But I plant a few each year, and they do well along with the naturals.

 

[Wazzu]

Looks like a fun time!

Owl, with that mustache ya got, you could pass yourself off as an unsavory character from that "Deadwood" tv show

You mean that cork sucker Al Swearingen. Ha ha. Good show. My apologies if you have not seen the show, it has a TON of cussing.

 

[northmanlogging]

I just wish I knew more about the forestry/ecology of it all, Why some spots grow cotton wood and ceder others its alder ceder and fir, Spruce and hemlock, Maples only. Its all very interesting. Weyco has a long sorted history of pioneering timber practices here its no surprise that they have one the first alder plantations

 

[tramp bushler]

IMO the hardwoods do well where the top of the soil has been exposed. Unless it is a well draining soil, they don't do very well if the permafrost is close to the surface. You guys prolly don't have to worry about permafrost
.
When a fire goes thru or a big wind that uproots trees they grow good. Also if a road or landing ect gets built hardwood will most of the time come up first. Followed by spruce. , Sitka or White. Black spruce grow on poorly drained soil on top of permafrost. At least in Alaska.

 

[Metals406]

Wish our Alder grew that big here.

Might find an 8"-10" tree now and then, but it would be the exception.

 

[OlympicYJ]

I have a strange piece of ground. It is only 5 acres, and not much flat to it. My house is on top of a rocky knob. The soil is pumice and drains fast. But cedar sprout up naturally here. Alder would take over if I didn't mow and weedwhack. It sprouts up in any place that doesn't have grass planted--including the flower beds.

I can't figure out the cedar thing. But I plant a few each year, and they do well along with the naturals.

I'm not too surprised by the cedar. Sometimes they will grow in well drained soils just not the greatest. Must be some little micro climate goin on there where more moisture is retained at that specific spot. Also if there is an established cedar close by, in a spot of soil that isn't well drained, just dumping seed on the place I could see cedar coming up as well. How old are they slowp? Reason I ask is they may not survive very well. Remember trees will start to grow where they aren't suitable but it doesn't mean they will survive to maturity.

I just wish I knew more about the forestry/ecology of it all, Why some spots grow cotton wood and ceder others its alder ceder and fir, Spruce and hemlock, Maples only. Its all very interesting. Weyco has a long sorted history of pioneering timber practices here its no surprise that they have one the first alder plantations

Hey here's a good book out of OSU that covers silviculture and Ecology and it's only $37 so not too hard on the wallet for the knowledge gained. If you have trouble with some of the terms just use google or you could get the Dictionary of Forestry to help out; really good reference book so I'd think about it anyway. The book is Silviculture and Ecology of Western U.S. Forests by John C. Tappeiner II, Douglas A. Maguire, and Timothy B. Harrington. ISBN 978-0-87071-187-9