First and foremost, safety should have been your most important aspect of this entire project, Customers or people down there don't have a clue how dangerous the situation they are in when crossing pathways or around trees while trees are being cared for especially being high in the tree and maybe unnoticeable. Would it have been better to have done the job on a day when the office was closed, at closing time or maybe have another worker redirect the clients to a side door or something? I would have been very cautious around people at all cost and certainly avoid them if possible.
Allowing pedestrians in the work area
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First and foremost, safety should have been your most important aspect of this entire project, Customers or people down there don't have a clue how dangerous the situation they are in when crossing pathways or around trees while trees are being cared for especially being high in the tree and maybe unnoticeable. Would it have been better to have done the job on a day when the office was closed, at closing time or maybe have another worker redirect the clients to a side door or something? I would have been very cautious around people at all cost and certainly avoid them if possible.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Screw em, Rock!
The co. I work for does a lot of contract work to prune street trees in downtown portland. Often times over busy bus lanes and bus stops. The policy is, we CANNOT block the sidewalk, busstops, or stop bus traffic . We can place cones on sidewalk, but bottom line is the pedestrians/bus traffic always has the legal right of way.Communication is key, "CLEAR" from the climber answered by "CLEAR" from the ground,"STOP!" anytime anyone is close or approaching. It's not the time for daydreaming on anyones' part . A few strategically left branches on the ground work better than cones for catching people's attention. Also climbing over the road means absolutely never allowing your rope to dangle into traffic.
i find piles of branches a more effective barrier and wakeup call to those travelling near work areas than cones. Never had anyone steer around and into zone around a pile, move one to step around, run over one, play with one while waiting, knock one over etc.
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
directing traffic
I find that people, whether on foot or wheels, are more likely to comply with the director if he/she is wearing a helmet.
love
nick
I find that people, whether on foot or wheels, are more likely to comply with the director if he/she is wearing a helmet.
love
nick
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Helmet or vest or whatever, if the person acts with authority, most people will assume that they have it.
The hardhat does help if one sais"Excuse me sir, this is a hardhat area beyond the cones. Please go around."
The hardhat does help if one sais"Excuse me sir, this is a hardhat area beyond the cones. Please go around."
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
IMO the climber should be checking the DZ before making the back cut, comunicating woth the ground with comand and resoponce.
I use STAND CLEAR/ALL CLEAR on a regular basis. This is after the knotch is cut, or on bigger pieces, just prior to separation.
THough several of us did mention this before we went off on a slight tangent on how to make the ground people more effective.
Ask any of those I've worked with; Guy, Ox, Fred. (I don't think you ran ropes for me) Sometimes we will do it on every single cut.
I use STAND CLEAR/ALL CLEAR on a regular basis. This is after the knotch is cut, or on bigger pieces, just prior to separation.
THough several of us did mention this before we went off on a slight tangent on how to make the ground people more effective.
Ask any of those I've worked with; Guy, Ox, Fred. (I don't think you ran ropes for me) Sometimes we will do it on every single cut.
i think that just like tieing in twice before cutting; FailSafe is at least a 2 part process.
With a clear view, climber has crow's nest/ bird's eye overlay view. Ground crew has eyes, that can't see all that; but can physically command/ secure a zone. Both work to command KillZone (i like descriptive terms), in FailSafe, double checking, independant systems/views.
i usually can see all around a fair 140* or so, well pro-tecting area i'm aiming at, squares adjacent to that for forgiveness. Calling the KillZone from precut, to possible paths of flight (speed line etc.)and LZ's.
i got shook, cuz i really didn't have a chance to see till too late, while very close to topping a leader. Suddenly finding both parts of my usually 2 part system compromised, and the timing for that all lined up to go wrong in the worst way....
But still, look at it as a 2 part, double check deal (at least); and the man cutting should be on full alert too, and usually has the best view, and most last minute control to what s/he is doing.
IMLHO
With a clear view, climber has crow's nest/ bird's eye overlay view. Ground crew has eyes, that can't see all that; but can physically command/ secure a zone. Both work to command KillZone (i like descriptive terms), in FailSafe, double checking, independant systems/views.
i usually can see all around a fair 140* or so, well pro-tecting area i'm aiming at, squares adjacent to that for forgiveness. Calling the KillZone from precut, to possible paths of flight (speed line etc.)and LZ's.
i got shook, cuz i really didn't have a chance to see till too late, while very close to topping a leader. Suddenly finding both parts of my usually 2 part system compromised, and the timing for that all lined up to go wrong in the worst way....
But still, look at it as a 2 part, double check deal (at least); and the man cutting should be on full alert too, and usually has the best view, and most last minute control to what s/he is doing.
IMLHO
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
ABSOLUTELY!!!
That business owner must not care about his future very much. If someone would have been hurt his business name probably would have made the papers, and he could have lost everthing in the resulting lawsuits.
Those jerks on the ground, by not securing the work zone, not only risked their own futures, but the pedestrians, and Brian's too. If someone was being an idiot and repeatedly risking my future I'd cuss them out and walk off the job too.
Maybe Brian's actions will wake the guy up.
Those jerks on the ground, by not securing the work zone, not only risked their own futures, but the pedestrians, and Brian's too. If someone was being an idiot and repeatedly risking my future I'd cuss them out and walk off the job too.
Maybe Brian's actions will wake the guy up.
Froggy
ArboristSite Operative
Reply
Rocky J, You may have made a mistake by losing it with the customer or the super over the job. You probably already know that by now. You don't have to lose you customer or the work. Maybe talk about it with both parties when the dust settles. It might be for the better. As far as for what happened. Some times you can't control everything you want to when you're in a tree. That's why you hope for good groundies and keep an eye out at all times. Which I'm sure you do. My only advice to you would be maybe try not to get so upset when things aren't going as you want. If things do get to that point maybe come out of the tree and talk it over with the crew. Comming out of a tree shows you meen business, because anyone who's been around tree work for a while knows a climber hates to climb a tree twice. Hope this helps you out. Later.....BB:angel:
Rocky J, You may have made a mistake by losing it with the customer or the super over the job. You probably already know that by now. You don't have to lose you customer or the work. Maybe talk about it with both parties when the dust settles. It might be for the better. As far as for what happened. Some times you can't control everything you want to when you're in a tree. That's why you hope for good groundies and keep an eye out at all times. Which I'm sure you do. My only advice to you would be maybe try not to get so upset when things aren't going as you want. If things do get to that point maybe come out of the tree and talk it over with the crew. Comming out of a tree shows you meen business, because anyone who's been around tree work for a while knows a climber hates to climb a tree twice. Hope this helps you out. Later.....BB:angel:
M.D. Vaden
vadenphotography.com
It may not handle the hazard aspect, but many contracts have a phrase about work being done in a "professional and workmanlike manner".
If a signature is taken for traffic area jobs, then any action to prevent a tree worker from securing a safe zone would bring about a breach of contract, or obstruction of completion of contract.
Isn't it amazing that people won't use a back door sometimes.
How about the window gawkers?
If a signature is taken for traffic area jobs, then any action to prevent a tree worker from securing a safe zone would bring about a breach of contract, or obstruction of completion of contract.
Isn't it amazing that people won't use a back door sometimes.
How about the window gawkers?
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Re: Reply
Billy, I think there were other things in the relationship between Brian and the primary, where this became the proverbail straw. Things he was putting up with because the money was good.
I've done the same thing, in a lower key way. If they don't want to do some things my way, then I just don't have time in my schedule.
I've had one guy call me back several times and we were able to iron things out enough so that we could work, but many are too set in their ways.
Many things I will be flexable about, but not safety or tree health.
Billy, I think there were other things in the relationship between Brian and the primary, where this became the proverbail straw. Things he was putting up with because the money was good.
I've done the same thing, in a lower key way. If they don't want to do some things my way, then I just don't have time in my schedule.
I've had one guy call me back several times and we were able to iron things out enough so that we could work, but many are too set in their ways.
Many things I will be flexable about, but not safety or tree health.
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