Another large oak with armillaria

[treevet]

So, have we reached a consensus that due to multiple high value targets, this beautiful armillaria infected blackjack's gambling days should be brought to a safe end recommendation?

And if the answer is yes, which armillaria resistant tree do you recommend replacing it with?

jomoco

I think I would have this tree resistographed. Maybe enjoy it for a few more years and in the meantime start another, as you say, disease resistant tree.

 

[Nevic Donnelly]

Ok, just pulled out Christopher Luley's new book "Wood Decay Fungi". He makes a point to say "Many fungi that fruit as mushrooms appear very similar to Armillaria. Be certain all the Identifying features are present." He also notes: "Honey-colored caps (not orange) with white gills." Like I said earlier the caps from the first post seem a bit orange. Again my physical sample is pretty degraded so I can't call it either way at this point.

 

[Nevic Donnelly]

Still no shoe strings.

 

[treevet]

Ok, just pulled out Christopher Luley's new book "Wood Decay Fungi". He makes a point to say "Many fungi that fruit as mushrooms appear very similar to Armillaria. Be certain all the Identifying features are present." He also notes: "Honey-colored caps (not orange) with white gills." Like I said earlier the caps from the first post seem a bit orange. Again my physical sample is pretty degraded so I can't call it either way at this point.

Might be in the best interests to visit a lab Nevic.

 

[jomoco]

Might be in the best interests to visit a lab Nevic.

Your county ag dept should be able to make a positive ID for dirt cheap.

That tree is worth spending chump change on.

I agree, no hurry.

jomoco

 

[treevet]

Time to chime in a little here - this is what I observed yesterday.

The tree is a black jack oak (Quercus marilandica) - I hate it on these sites when members do not include their civil name in their profiles.

Dave Shaw, CA, Cinci, Oh, glad to meet you.

 

[Nevic Donnelly]

Not my client, just a friend of a friend. He has already gotten two recommendations from qualified arborists. I told him he should let ATS dig around and see what he comes up with. We should get a few more warm days with some moisture, If it fruits again he can call and have a fresh sample collected. As ATS pointed out in his original post, this specimen is uncharacteristic of the species. So much so that I could not believe it was black jack from the picture. Had I know the identity of ATS at the time I started reading this thread I would not have wasted my time contradicting him. I've done the right thing by posting the picture of me eating the hat and it would just be rude of me (which is an envelope that I've already pushed.) to step between him and his potential client.

 

[treevet]

makes sense to me

 

[Nevic Donnelly]

Good to meet you too Mr. Shaw.

 

[jomoco]

Dave Shaw, CA, Cinci, Oh, glad to meet you.

Wait a minute, I know Dave Shaw from UCSD Ext in San Diego CA.

That aint you is it Treevet?

jomoco

 

[treevet]

Wait a minute, I know Dave Shaw from UCSD Ext in San Diego CA.

That aint you is it Treevet?

jomoco

No man, that ain't me. Shigo used to say he had 3 Dave Shaw's. The other one is in Freehold N.J. I think.

 

[jomoco]

No man, that ain't me. Shigo used to say he had 3 Dave Shaw's. The other one is in Freehold N.J. I think.

Shigo ticked me off in San Francisco at the state university when he patted me on the back and called me a clever young man in a very paternalistic fashion bordering on condescension.

Richard Harris was a great guy, and much more informative in my opinion Dave.

jomoco

 

[treevet]

Shigo ticked me off in San Francisco at the state university when he patted me on the back and called me a clever young man in a very paternalistic fashion bordering on condescension.

Richard Harris was a great guy, and much more informative in my opinion Dave.

jomoco

He could've kicked you in the azz and called you suzie...lol....then you'd have a case imo.

Harris is always a great read but never met him unfortunately.

 

[jomoco]

I've always wanted to try using artificial lighting to combat both armillaria and phytopthera fungal infections in trees.

Halide lighting combined with carefull airspade root crown excavation of the infected roots would be effective in my opinion.

I feel that darkness depravation would kill the fungus long before it had any detrimental effects on the tree.

If anyone knows of any research on this subject, please chime in.

jomoco

 

[Ekka]

Yeah, but come on, nourish the beneficials and the pathogenic fungi decline to partake. Also a dash of this and a pinch of that? Not the "dose and timing Shigo" expounds.

There's more to trees than Shigo you know.

Such is life, good vs bad, good fungi vs bad fungi, good bacteria vs bad bacteria. As you are introducing more nurtured good guys the bad will be beaten, Germans had better tanks than Russia, but lost because Russia had more volume.... just a numbers game.

Also the soil conditions would yield in favour of the good guys when cared for well.

In the very air we breathe, daily, you inhale a stack of good and bad guys. Your own vitality and predisposition determines whether or not anything happens, you sneeze or get pneumonia. If you have a decent genetic code, eat healthy, exercise and have a positive lifestyle you'll generally get less sick and live longer than say a boozing overweight smoker who consumes 10 cups of coffee a day and 6 donuts.

In this example the scales have tipped in favour of some bad fungi, the crown does appear to show symptoms of something. So to help the tree look after itself is obvious what has to be done, also to make the soil better it's obvious (to me anyway) what has to be done, to introduce combatant fungi it's obvious what has to be done ....

... and to reduce the risk of failure it is also obvious what has to be done, if the tree is retained.

Regarding resistant replantings, I found this.

Source: http://kentcoopextension.blogspot.com/2008/07/landscape-armillaria-root-rot.html

● The following trees are thought to be less susceptible to Armillaria root rot except when growing under extremely stressful conditions: Bald cypress, boxwood, callery pear, catalpa, Chinese elm, cork tree, crabapple, gingko, hackberry, holly, honey locust, Japanese maple, magnolia, mulberry, pine, smoke tree, sumac, sweetgum, sycamore, tree-of-heaven, tuliptree, white fir.

Also this,

Source: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/GARDEN/PLANTS/DISEASES/rstarmillaria.html

Landscape Plants Highly Resistant to Armillaria Root Rot#

* Acacia
(Acacia spp.)
* Ash
(Fraxinus spp.)
* Bald cypress
(Taxodium distichum)
* Boxwood
(Buxus sempervirens)
* Cherry
(Prunus spp.)
* Chinese elm
(Ulmus parvifolia )
* Chinese pistache
(Pistacia chinensis)
* Coast redwood
(Sequoia sempervirens)
* Crab apple
(Malus spp.)
* Ellwood cypress
(Chamaecyparis lawsoniana)
* Eucalyptus
(Eucalyptus spp.)
* Hackberry
(Celtis spp.)
* Holly
(Ilex spp.)
* Incense cedar
(Calocedrus decurrens)
* Madrone
(Arbutus menziesii)
* Magnolia
(Magnolia grandiflora)
* Maple
(Acer spp.)
* Oak (Quercus spp.)
* Pine (Pinus spp.)
* Pittosporum
(Pittosporum spp.)
* Privet
(Ligustrum tschonskii)
* Sacred bamboo
(Nandina domestica)
* Sweet gum
(Liquidambar spp.)
* Tulip tree
(Liriodendron tulipifera )
* White fir
(Abies concolor )
# This is only a guideline; many of these species may be attacked if soil is highly contaminated.

 

[treevet]

We are missing one key step prior to proceeding with treatment (and sooner or later appropriate replacement). This tree, despite this being a thread on Armillaria, has not been definitively diagnosed with this malady as of yet.

PS. You may have trouble fitting Dr. Shigo's credentials on your ubiquitous cereal box. (Father of Modern Arboriculture)

 

[Ed Roland]

Yeah, but come on, nourish the beneficials and the pathogenic fungi decline to partake. Also a dash of this and a pinch of that? Not the "dose and timing Shigo" expounds.

Got a fish on the line....tell me how (and when) to bring it in.

I never met Dr. Shigo but I am very familiar with his work. It would seem to me that Ekka and he are on the same page.

"The rhizosphere is the absorbing root-soil interface. It is the zone, about one millimeter in width, surrounding living root hairs and the boundary cells of mycorrhizae as well as hyphae growing out from some mycorrhizae.

The rhizoplane is the boundary where soil elements in water are absorbed into the tree. Under an electron microscope, the rhizoplane appears as a jelly where microorganisms and tree cells mix, making it impossible to tell which side is tree and which is soil.

A constantly changing mix of organisms inhabit the rhizosphere and surrounding soil. Bacteria, actinomycetes, fungi, protozoa, slime molds, algae, nematodes, enchytraeid worms, earthworms, millipedes, centipedes, insects, mites, snails, small animals and soil viruses compete constantly for water, food, and space.

The rhizosphere is a battleground and the wars are continuous. Amoebae are eating bacteria. Some bacteria are poisoning other bacteria. Fungi are killing other fungi. Nematodes are spearing roots. Fungi are trapping nematodes. Earthworms are eating anything they can find. Sometimes the victors benefit the tree and sometimes they do not.

Every tree treatment affects the rhizosphere in some way. The more you know about the rhizosphere, the better the chances are that your treatments will lead to benefits rather than harm." -Shigo

Treevet, disagreement is fine, but be specific. What bothers you about Ekka's treatment for Armillaria?

 

[Ekka]

:agree2:

Fantastic post, ya da man.

Recently there's been some fascinating research into trees responses to stress and their defence systems.

It's been known for some time now that trees actually manipulate their exudates at the roots to attract certain bacteria and fungi for certain needs.

A research guy explained to me they control a lot of what goes on, like switches for their needs. Now what we dont know is what they want specifically, you see, if they wanted a particular element they'd attract certain microbes to consume their exudates that then excrete what they're after.... a roundabout way of doing things but that's how life does work.

Knowing what we dont know the researchers then go to more fertile pristine soils of rain forests etc and analyse what is there (as obviously the trees fair much better). They discover that the soil is 100x more alive.

In essence, knowing trees switch their soil demands means we have to try to supply the whole smorgasboard of what they might need, not in the elementals of chemical ferts which would create a life support system but at the biological level so the soil starts to live again. We know the good guys from the bad guys to a certain degree so tipping the scales in favour of the good guys is achievable.

In farming they are also trying to balance this, however the demands for productivity and costs are different for farms compared to amenity trees.

 

[Ed Roland]

I've always wanted to try using artificial lighting to combat both armillaria and phytopthera fungal infections in trees.

Halide lighting combined with carefull airspade root crown excavation of the infected roots would be effective in my opinion.

I feel that darkness depravation would kill the fungus long before it had any detrimental effects on the tree.

If anyone knows of any research on this subject, please chime in.

jomoco

"For arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi, low-intensity light is also known to induce hyphal branching and the consequent increase of mycelial biomass"

"Some authors have described effects of light on hyphal growth or branching, thereby mostly referring to inhibitory effects (Lauter et al., 1998; Chen & ####man, 2002; Ambra et al., 2004; Casas-Flores et al., 2004; Flaherty & Dunkle, 2005; Miyake et al., 2005; Idnurm & Heitman, 2005; Brasch & Kay, 2006)" http://mic.sgmjournals.org/cgi/content/full/154/4/1229

heavy stuff

 

[jomoco]

"For arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi, low-intensity light is also known to induce hyphal branching and the consequent increase of mycelial biomass"

"Some authors have described effects of light on hyphal growth or branching, thereby mostly referring to inhibitory effects (Lauter et al., 1998; Chen & ####man, 2002; Ambra et al., 2004; Casas-Flores et al., 2004; Flaherty & Dunkle, 2005; Miyake et al., 2005; Idnurm & Heitman, 2005; Brasch & Kay, 2006)" http://mic.sgmjournals.org/cgi/content/full/154/4/1229

heavy stuff

Very interesting read Woodweasel, thanks for the lead.

Looks like UV light exposure is an effective fungal spore killer.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?SEQ_NO_115=184249

jomoco