another lucky wannabe-Wash, DC

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Joe Homeowner?

I have to tell you all that it's tiresome to see you criticize the fictitious "Joe Homeowner" trying to deal with a problem tree. You often tell tales of stopping to save some misguided soul from certain injury or death. This may be a good thing to do if it is not merely profit driven. But, you then drive to your worksite and promptly get yourself or one of your co-workers killed. These people seem to be doing something they think they can handle, but can't. How many times has that happened to you pros? You had someone to bail you out. As for me, I intend to learn everything I can before/if I climb and at some point I may need someone to get me out of a tough spot.

You come across as a bit elitist. So I'll simply point out that you are mortal and you make tragic mistakes yourselves. The people I work with don't come across as elitiist, but rather as very hard working people, concerned with each others safety and well-being, careful, and talented people. Perhaps some self- examination is in order here on your part.

The subject individual of this thread survived. So many "professionals" don't survive or end up so severely injured that they can never work again. Keep that in mind when you work.

TIA,
Pete
 
Yeah, I stop and give homeowners FREE advise when I see them trying to make widows and orphans because I seek a profit. SURE!! This is a get rich quick job.

It is a labor of love or some of the most thankless work on the face of the earth.;)
 
Last Word

Flames deleted

Good idea Pete, please keep this childish tit-for-tat put-down stuff off the open board.

Many of us have grown weary of it long ago.

:rolleyes:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mythic Homeowner

My advice stands to Joe Homeowner, call the Electric company, even I do that to save wear and tear on me. Sometimes they will remove the tree and sometimes they will only clear anything within 8' of the powerline. Most often the call is to have them drop the powerline to the house so the powerline is not live and in the way as the work is done. As Treetx said "professionals" know about safety issues. It does not make you less of a professional to make the call the homeowner could have made but didn't. How many Joe homeowners know what the Electric company will do if asked? The advice here is to save a life not make money. Anyone who has been doing tree work for years will have been called to finish a job some Joe Homeowner started but could not finish because he was injured while trying to do tree work or waited until he dropped a tree on his garage or house before he called you to come fix the mess.
 
Besides, many people wioll appreciate it if you save them some money.

Pro's do stupid things too from time to time.

I feel this guy should be charged for the rescue service. If he does not have insurance then the homeowner should be liable because they hired an uninsured comapny. There is presidance, one could file suit agains the owner in a personal injury case.

Why should the public as a whole shoulder the responsibility for the rescue of a underskilled worked that a person hired probably as a low bidder.

Pete, I have stopped and offerd to help people I've seen working unsafe. I would have problems living with myself if I read later that that person died from a falling or struck-by accident.
 
Yes, professionals do get hurt. As was mentioned, the professionals tend to be much more aware of the proper methods for going about their work. I just got called in to finish removing 4 large black oaks because the contractors regular tree guy had his leg broken by a barber-chair. I would like to see some statistics regarding injuries per man-hour for professionals compared to homeowners. Tree care professionals are exposed to the danger much much more than a weekend warrior homeowner. I'd bet my company that professionals have a much lower rate of injuries per hours worked than homeowners. I don't see why so many people have such a hard time just hiring a true tree service to just do the work for them. I don't know how to do an irrigation system, so that's why I call a friend of mine who is a landscaper; on the flipside, he had no clue how to safely remove a 26" pine that was 10' from powerlines and a home with a driveway beneath it that had to be saved, so he called me.
 
Re: another lucky wannabe-Wash, DC/Outsider's Perspective

You make a good point. I don't know the statistics Professional vs. Homeowner on a per work hour basis. It's seems likely that the Professional would have a much lower injury and accident rate. But since they tend to tackle much more difficult jobs than most sensible homeowners would, I'm not sure.

Most homeowners know when they are in over their head and don't attempt to do the work. But, it's often not a matter of "saving money" but rather just not having money or something to trade (as you did) to have the work done by a pro. What do you do when you just don't have the money to have a pro do the work? I can't answer that question other than "try to do it yourself". The homeowner noted in this thread was apparently unaware that the power company would handle the work for him, but all they probably would do is clear the limbs away from the power lines. If the house is threatened by the tree, that is his problem to deal with, and if he can't pay, what is he to do?

About three years ago, a friend of mine wanted to fell a cherry tree in his yard. He's a lawyer, very intelligent and could pay but he wanted to do it himself I guess. His chain saw was on the fritz, so he took an axe to the tree. Apparently, he either tired or became impatient. So, he placed a *splitting wedge* where he had been chopping and gave it a hard wack with a maul. The wedge flew back and hit him in the mouth--he lost some teeth and was cut pretty bad, but survived. About two years ago, that same friend, who is also an avid gardener, stumbled and fell in front of his roto-tiller. He has a big garden and no doubt has a big roto-tiller. He got chewed up badly and was out of action for some time, but survived. I consider this acccident to be the rough equivalent of a chipper accident. Either accident could have been fatal had the circumstances been just a little different.

On the pro side, during a recent short stint with a Tree Service Company, we were removing an extremely large branch. The climber rigged and cut off a large section of that branch. It swung down away from the house, then swung back into the house--it was big enough that it could not be stopped by me, but should have been dropped by the ropeman, before it hit the house--judgement call. The house was brick, so no damage was done--but it could have. Last Friday, at work site, I looked over to see the person operating the chipper. I keep checking on other workers to make sure they are OK or don't otherwise need help [ I watch out for myself too ;-) ]. Well, he or someone had just fed a fairly large 8" diameter log with a "dog-leg" into the feeding chute. He was standing to the right side as he should have been, but when the chipper started to slow, he stuck his head way around not into the chute but well in it's path. At the same time, that log popped up and slammed hard against the top of the feeding chute--missed his head by about a foot I'd estimate, which is was too close by my standards. He should have known better--he almost certainly would have been badly injured, possibly kiled by the force of the impact. He has only a month on the job, so he's not a real veteran yet. Our 1/2 hour safety meeting at the Tree Company lasted 5 minutes, and was basically material I'd already read from Jeff Jepson's book. The meeting addressed you what to look out for when planning to climb and/or fell a tree: conks, mushrooms at the base of the tree, splits in branches,.....you know the drill here. But they did not at all address what precautions should be taken to address these issues. They had time to talk about some precautions, but they didn't bother to do so. Perhaps, they wanted us to call another tree company to handle a tree with these types of problems ;-) . I saw the pros make a few minor mistakes, most likely to result in some property damage or minor injury rather than serious injury or death--loose bricks or stones on steps to access the work site. I'd point it out to the forman and place a cone over the loose material so people would go around th hazard. The cone would often be moved by someone who did not ask why it was there as they should have. Cones are placed for a reason.

One last point that will no doubt offend many--that appears to be my greatest talent as a poster here. Sadly, all the Tree Service Companies I've contacted and/or dealt with seemed to be fly-by-night, unprofessional oufits, even when they were large companies. Office managers often seem more than a little disingenuous with me and I assume with others--he either just lied or had problems giving staff bad news thinking he was saving them from discomfort. I chose not to rock the boat. But, I assume most of you are honest hard-working people. The field workers were great: helpful, supportive, worked well together, took some time to show you how to do things. When you work as hard as they do, it's not easy to angry at anything, so all got along just fine.

Hard work? Yep, but I loved it.

Pete
 
Home owners

Most home owners don't know that by just asking for coverage on their trees their ins. co. will add it to there policy for little or no charge. Mine has a $500 deductable and covers up to $1,000 per tree after that for tree work. I got it because I asked for it. Most home owners don't know to ask. A tree guy should know enough to ask for it, a home owner would not, they might insure their car, jewelry or paintings and forget about those beautiful trees that enhance the value of their property. They don't think they need flood ins. until their house is under water and they don't call their ins guy and ask until the tree is on top of their house, car or garage.
 
Joe Homeowner

The guy who lives in the house behind me who I would describe as an acquaintance, not a friend, got hurt doing tree work a week ago at his parent's house.

He asked me to go there (40 miles) and check it out and see what it would cost to help them out. I selfishly thought, "Whatever dude, I have enough work for half price for the neighbor jobs and I don't drive 80 mile unless cash is involved."

Same old story, piecing down a big oak and then a log rolled over the ladder he was standing on. Landed on his head. Good thing he is young and flexible. A little bruised.

Made me think about helping a bit more.
 
Helping Joe Homeowner

TREETX:

You just can't help everybody. There are a lot more Joe Homeowners than tree experts. Do what you can (within reason) to prevent someone getting hurt, but you can't do it all. This "friend" could have got some quotes from tree service companies more local to him.

It always feels good to help neighbors and friends. But I would never ask a friend for help in an area that is his/her line of work w/o expecting to pay full price. That's how you make you're living and it seems unfair to do otherwise. On other things, I might ask for a helping hand from friends. I offer something in return for that help. But not that many people need a computer program written ;-) ! Anybody who does should let me know.

I'm glad he's OK.

Pete
 

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