Any one ride the pick down?

[treemandan]

Rigging off the crane with a block and line? I can't think of a worse idea. Someone actually suggested that and Tcia published it?...wow

I did it once, scary scene, the hook was lower than the load I dumped on it. I suppose the idea is about the same as hooking a lowering device onto a mini loader- you just have to watch the weight.

 

[treemandan]

hey jeff, you wanna see a pic of my company truck? i drive this prick everyday now. don't worry bout me, all well here....

Oh my, look at the size of the boom on that guy!:rolleyes2:

... Justin the big ####ed buzzard, you'll go down in his-tor-ee!

 

[Blakesmaster]

???

I don't own any heavy equipment, Blakesmaster. What your problem is, I don't know. Or care.

No problem here. I just like to learn a little about the new guy running his flapper, especially when he's giving bad information. Figured the rest of the boys would get a kick out of the pics too.

That's a nice crane there, 70 ton? Parked right on top of the tree too by the looks. Just a heads up, the reason your advice is not being taken seriously is because that tree with that crane should not have been a two day ordeal. If you paid more attention to the experienced minds on this forum you could learn how to knock that thing out in much less time.

I am curious though, is that really how you left the tree? Confident the risk has been mitigated?

And what's the deal with changing the price mid job? I woulda kicked your ass off the property at that point if I was the HO, have some respect for yourself, your biz, and your industry. Give a price and stick to it. If you don't have the knowledge to give a competitive bid for the whole job, you don't have the knowledge to be tackling that job.

 

[Toddppm]

I'm still trying to figure out what the crane was for when all they did was lay the pieces on the ground and not even take the stuff 5 feet away?
Looks like the equipment was a subs and only the climber worked for him?

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I'm still trying to figure out what the crane was for when all they did was lay the pieces on the ground and not even take the stuff 5 feet away?
Looks like the equipment was a subs and only the climber worked for him?

I apparently "flap my jaw" way too much about what I barely can comprehend, but the crane operator was quite happy to leave the big pieces right at the base of the tree, as locust is quite heavy. At the distance of the farthest pick, he said he was comfortable with about 3000 more pounds above the max size we were taking down. His boom was over the house and a power line, and he was jacked up about 4 ft. on a hill. Maybe he was just a pansy. The owner wanted the wood, so the base of the tree put it closer to his woodpile. The tree came out as an 11 on the ISA constructed RA scale of 12 points; shortened, the tree is a 10 needing annual inspection (to the best of my memory; i wrote the report last summer). I really was confused at the time as to how the tree had not fallen over already when I was doing the RA.

 

[Pelorus]

?.. shortened, the tree is a 10 needing annual inspection (to the best of my memory; i wrote the report last summer). I really was confused at the time as to how the tree had not fallen over already when I was doing the RA.

Had a guy talk to me years ago about getting a "stub" taken down. Asked him how big it was, height / dia.
He says it is only about 20' tall, and about "the size of two washing machines wide". I never forgot that, I mean, who ever describes a tree like that?

Turns out it was a red oak that someone had dismantled to that height (around 25') years ago, and left it like that, with a slight lean towards his house. His insurance provider was threatening to cancel his policy for "wilful neglect". End of story, I pulled it down for a nominal amount, and everybody was happy.

 

[justa buzzid]

Once again, slappy, you dead wrong... locust is surprisingly light. keep digging that hole!!

 

[beastmaster]

Once again, slappy, you dead wrong... locust is surprisingly light. keep digging that hole!!

I don't want to get involved in your all pissing contests, but I do know Locust is pretty heavy, only being out done by some Oaks and Euc's. I know this from experience and it can be verified by looking at a green log weight chart.
It's nice being young, and full of piss and vinegar, nothing wrong with that, but there is more to arborculture then just crane removals.
Good luck out there and be safe.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I don't want to get involved in your all pissing contests, but I do know Locust is pretty heavy, only being out done by some Oaks and Euc's. I know this from experience and it can be verified by looking at a green log weight chart.
It's nice being young, and full of piss and vinegar, nothing wrong with that, but there is more to arborculture then just crane removals.
Good luck out there and be safe.

Yea, buzz is a little off, should check his source. According to an old "Commercial Timbers of the United States" book I have, specific gravity is .60 dry wt. for honey locust (Gleditsia triacanthos), so multiplying that by the weight of a cubic foot of water (62.4 lbs) gives you 37.44 lbs per cubic ft. dry wt. My crane guy didn't want to go over 10,000 at 60 ft, and he said the heaviest pic was about 6,000 for a log about 30 in thick by 16 ft. (and clean, without limb stubs). That's about 50% over the dry wt based on volume. The sapwood on the tree (as you can see in the pics) was quite narrow, so water must have seeped into the wood through the wind-shake cracks as well. Also, the "spider" of limb stubs at the tops must have weighed a lot on the other logs.

My climber (and the crane operator) had done lots of crane jobs, and they both agreed that cutting long logs with the tops attached was a bad idea, because to get a big enough log to avoid an end over would have been too heavy for comfort. I guess you had to be there.

 

[dbl612]

Yea, buzz is a little off, should check his source. According to an old "Commercial Timbers of the United States" book I have, specific gravity is .60 dry wt. for honey locust (Gleditsia triacanthos), so multiplying that by the weight of a cubic foot of water (62.4 lbs) gives you 37.44 lbs per cubic ft. dry wt. My crane guy didn't want to go over 10,000 at 60 ft, and he said the heaviest pic was about 6,000 for a log about 30 in thick by 16 ft. (and clean, without limb stubs). That's about 50% over the dry wt based on volume. The sapwood on the tree (as you can see in the pics) was quite narrow, so water must have seeped into the wood through the wind-shake cracks as well. Also, the "spider" of limb stubs at the tops must have weighed a lot on the other logs.

My climber (and the crane operator) had done lots of crane jobs, and they both agreed that cutting long logs with the tops attached was a bad idea, because to get a big enough log to avoid an end over would have been too heavy for comfort. I guess you had to be there.

your op is on target with his ratings. that 70t that was shown easily would handle 10k @ 60r with max boom. the computer limits his pick capacity to 10k at even closer radius because of single part line rating of 3/4 in cable on that rig. must of been a lot of travel and setup time, a tree that size with a machine that size, and a drop zone at base-4 hrs tops with ground people awake.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

your op is on target with his ratings. that 70t that was shown easily would handle 10k @ 60r with max boom. the computer limits his pick capacity to 10k at even closer radius because of single part line rating of 3/4 in cable on that rig. must of been a lot of travel and setup time, a tree that size with a machine that size, and a drop zone at base-4 hrs tops with ground people awake.

You are right about t he crane handling the weight. I am sure the OP wasn't real happy, don't know if it was the climber's fault or what, but one log did quite the shimmy coming off the stub.
If you look closely at the video, the crane didn't move at all. It doesn't have death metal and has a talking dog, but it was made for a few bucks by a client.

Pruning Oregon's Largest Honey Locust Tree - YouTube

 

[treemandan]

Once again, slappy, you dead wrong... locust is surprisingly light. keep digging that hole!!

I agree though wet butt logs get up there.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

No problem here. I just like to learn a little about the new guy running his flapper, especially when he's giving bad information. Figured the rest of the boys would get a kick out of the pics too.

That's a nice crane there, 70 ton? Parked right on top of the tree too by the looks. Just a heads up, the reason your advice is not being taken seriously is because that tree with that crane should not have been a two day ordeal. If you paid more attention to the experienced minds on this forum you could learn how to knock that thing out in much less time.

I am curious though, is that really how you left the tree? Confident the risk has been mitigated?

And what's the deal with changing the price mid job? I woulda kicked your ass off the property at that point if I was the HO, have some respect for yourself, your biz, and your industry. Give a price and stick to it. If you don't have the knowledge to give a competitive bid for the whole job, you don't have the knowledge to be tackling that job.

Why I am responding one more time, I don't know. "...have some respect..." works for you,too, and much more so, given your comments about the truck, crane, tree, etc. You are making so many assumptions and dumping on so many other people's reputations you don't know that you are significantly denting your own reputation, whether you know it or not; only Buzz surpasses you.

Here's why i responded again, in addition to calling you out:

I have a clause in my more complex contracts that says if unforseen circumstances come up, more time or equipment may be needed for the job, which will be so completed only after discussion and agreement with the home owner This is standard language in contracts, tree biz or otherwise. In this particular contact, it was spelled out exactly with reference to the crane. No change in price, because the clause acts as a device to amend the contact. I even gave the HO a break by not adding a margin to the crane sub cost in constructing the bid.

The alternative --- no clause to amend -- might be to finish the job by reducing safety and causing more impact, or keeping the original price and taking a big wack in profit margin. Which would you pick?

About the safety of the remaining tree: it had around 70% of the weight taken off the roots, my recommendations include monitoring and other care, and I had other arborists and consulting arborists informally concur on my risk mitigation / historic tree preservation plan.

Finally, what bad information from the"new guy"? I can count around a dozen distortions you have laid out -- and that's using the most neutral word choice I can muster. While my business under its name is 5 years old, I have been studying trees, formally and informally, and pruning them nearly my entire life.

You don't have to believe any of this, of course -- I'm sure buzz doesn't . He has dismissed my credentials and experience in general, and the thought I have put into this project in particular out of hand on another thread, without bothering to check. Someone that does something differently or has a different opinion on something is not necessarily wrong, and the OP that passes judgement without bothering to find out -- to learn about someone else's decision process -- can make that OP look a tad narrow minded and willfully ignorant.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Why I am responding one more time, I don't know. "...have some respect..." works for you,too, and much more so, given your comments about the truck, crane, tree, etc. You are making so many assumptions and dumping on so many other people's reputations you don't know that you are significantly denting your own reputation, whether you know it or not; only Buzz surpasses you.

Here's why i responded again, in addition to calling you out:

I have a clause in my more complex contracts that says if unforseen circumstances come up, more time or equipment may be needed for the job, which will be so completed only after discussion and agreement with the home owner This is standard language in contracts, tree biz or otherwise. In this particular contact, it was spelled out exactly with reference to the crane. No change in price, because the clause acts as a device to amend the contact. I even gave the HO a break by not adding a margin to the crane sub cost in constructing the bid.

The alternative --- no clause to amend -- might be to finish the job by reducing safety and causing more impact, or keeping the original price and taking a big wack in profit margin. Which would you pick?

About the safety pf the tree, it had around 70% of the weight taken off the roots, and my recommendations include monitoring and other care.

Finally, what bad information? I can count around a dozen distortions you have laid out -- and that's using the most neutral word choice I can muster.

If you're still convinced you did that tree the best way possible with the given equipment then there really is no reason for us to continue this conversation.

 

[Blakesmaster]

And just in case you don't think I have the experience to make that judgement call, this is a 7 and a half hour crane tree. Done with a 40 ton, at least twice the spread of yours, with a lot more obstacles to deal with.

 

[Blakesmaster]

And there's guys on here that could have done it in half that time.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Yeah, but do you even crane?

 

[Blakesmaster]

Seriously, HR, how many crane jobs have you done over the years? I mean crane removals, wrecked out storm nasties or otherwise substantial trees?

The above crane is owned by a member here, who's words you brushed off as unimportant. You really think you can tell THAT guy his business?

 

[Pelorus]

"It wasn't a take down -- the tree is still there and is expected to go on growing -- just gave it a haircut from 94 f. to 20 -30 ft."

Notwithstanding the Great Crane Debate, "...this is a triumph for compartmentalization; but is this what the tree should look like?" Shigo...who believed that "trees should look like trees, and when their time comes, they should die with dignity".

It is like an old blind three-legged diabetic dog being kept around for sentimental reasons, and I don't think it is "arboriculture" to leave work like that. It is no different (to me) than agreeing to do some tree masonry work, or install drain tubes to dry out bacterial wetwood. It's all bad practice.

Guess the bottom line here re. the OP, is that a new chew toy got gnawed on, until it was time to get quarantined on an island away from his tormentors.

 

[tree MDS]

I didn't read this whole windy thread, but just curious, who's idea was it to leave the big wood standing, the customer's, or the new guy's? It does look like a crappy job. How much did this run the customer?