any shindaiwa mechanics out there??

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snapper

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I have a model 500 saw that i bought used. It died on me last year, seems like it was running and it was like it ran out of gas. It wouldnt start back and i figured it scored the cylinder. Well i started looking at it today, and found 90 - 100 pounds of compression, it has nice blue spark, but it just wont run. It will not hit a lick on starting fluid. I have torn it down looking for a loose jug, and found nothing lose; i checked the rubber boot connecting the carb to the motor and it looks intact. It has me baffled as to why it wont run. First question i have is if you pull the carb and put your finger over the hole into the engine, how much suction should you feel when pulling the rope?? And secondly do any of you have any ideas for me???


Thanks guys!! snapper
 
First, I'd be wary of using starting fluid. Second, has the flywheel key sheared? That's a possiblity. You'll probably need to pull the flywheel to find out, though you may be able to see after removing the nut or whatever your saw has.

Is the plug wet when you pull it out after cranking a few times? If yes, close the hi and low speed screws. (Make mental note of how far out they were.) Crank it a bunch of times (10-12--it varies), and if it fires your carb may be is flooding the engine. If still no fire, your problem may be elsewhere.

You say it suddenly quit, wouldn't start up again, and still has spark. I'd lean towards a sheared key.

Hard to troubleshoot without the engine in front of me.

Good luck, Chris B.
 
Repeat the compression test with the muffler off. The compression you got might be enough to make the saw run but it is kinda low. If the saw cannot exhale , it cannot inhale and if it can't fill the crankcase, then comression will be low. It is possible to pass a compression test with a scored piston.
 
okay, i checked the key, it is not sheared. I have tried it with and with out the muffler. The cylinder doesnt look scored from what i can see. I will try tightning the mixing screws tommorow and see what hapens. But it just seems like it should run?? If all else fails i will tear it apart and see what i can see.

Thanks guys!! snapper
 
Try putting 1/2 teaspoon of oil in the cylinder, and do another compression test.
PSI figures you show are low, but it should start and run.
If they jump up alot, there is some internal wear, and possibly a stuck piston ring.

Since you've tried the 'vapor bomb' (starting fluid) w/o a 'pop', try a pressure test.

If a tester isn't available, I would look very closely at the crank seals. Starting with the PTO side which is usually the first to go. But also check the flywheel side. Must do both if there is wear.
If you see any 'wetness' at-around the seal lip & crankshaft, it is leaking.

Best to also check the crank runout. If bearings are worn, R & R'ing the seals is temporary, and can-will eventually affect saw performance.
Symptom is carb adjustments will have to be changed alot.
 
You said you had a blue spark. I am sure you must have eliminated a bad plug possibility. but just checking. If you have a proper fuel mixture and 100 psi compression and spark at the proper time it HAS to fire!

Frank
 
anybody know if there is a reed valve under the carb on this model?? The cylinder is layed down and the carb is mounted towards the bottom of the jug. When i had off the carb i could see the bottom skirt of the piston and then into the sump.. Could some one explain the pressure testing mentioned earlier??

Later snapper
 
If the carb bolts to the jug, you have a piston-ported setup. When a carb is bolted to the crankcase, you no longer have the piston available to open and close the intake passage, thus the use of a reed valve which is pulled open by crankcase vacuum.

The pressure test involves exposing the seals by removing the flywheel, clutch, etc...and closing off the intake and exhaust ports with custom plates (and the impulse line if yours runs from a separate fitting on the crankcase). Low air pressure is applied, typically through a fitting in one of those custom plates. The idea is to find an airleak where it shouldn't be. Either at a crank seal, case gasket, hole is case, etc...

Chris B.
 
Rupedoggy, What if it were a reed saw? Wouldn'r a broken reed allow too much pressure to blow back through the carb and not have any charge left to compress? Just a thought.
 
Replace the rings, and take the carb apart and check for crap in the carb, this will cause a saw to suddenly quit working properly. I suspect the intake line may have picked up some junk in the tanks and it got lodged in the carb where it is stopping fuel flow. also check the carb screens as well, they can get clogged and cause similar symptoms, it is likely that the saw has a bad intake boot on it which caused the saw to run too lean and scored the cylinder and possibly the piston as well, get new piston and rings too. then clean the carb, put in a new fuel filter, replace the carb boot and crankcase seals as well as the crankshaft seals to be safe. If you can do it, try and get the saw apart and post some pics of the piston and cylinder walls for us and we can help a bit more.
 
check to see if you have a hole in your pulse line and make sure the gasket between the carb and boot isn't upside down. if you cant get it started put a little mixed gas in the plug hole.dont use starting fluid it is to dry and will cause damage.if you have a spark and fire you should have a running saw if you have the compression you said you did. if you have any questions,contact david neiger at [email protected] this man is the smartest man in the world when it comes to chainsaws, and he's always willing to help somebody.

lumberjack
 
Saw is piston ported.
Compression test won't be affected by reed ( it's below the piston ring), but crankcase pressure whether positive or negative will be reed influenced affecting fuel delivery.

Engine has three main 'systems'.
Eliminate each one 'system' by eliminating possible problems within each 'system' for testing sake.

1. Fuel. By using starting fluid you have bypassed it. If spark is good, timing good, and compression ok...it should 'pop'.

2.Electrical. Two quick checks. Spark, and timing. You said spark is, "nice blue". That's good. Now timing. Two checks: First is Air gap should be 0 .010- 0.012 (I think). Air gap will affect timing.
Second is flywheel position. Either compare a picture of magnet position to a coil pick up leg, or pull the flywheel. There is a machined key way, and it used a steel key. It's possible by unlikely that the key, or crank cracked/sheared, but possible (unlikely) that the flywheel key way cracked. But eliminate it by checking. Ususally when a key shears it craps out right away.

3. Upper & Lower engine assemblies that develop BOTH Positive & Negative pressures by the crankcase, cylinder, and piston.
90-100 PSI is on the low side, but should 'pop' with starting fluid. Try the oil test to eliminate a stuck ring, and or damage wear. It's quick, easy and reliable.
It PSI increases...start there. If not... you most likely have a crankshaft seal that's bad. That saw uses needle bearings, which are a durable as ball bearsings. As time is put on the engine, and they wear normally, the crankshaft moves more radially, and that wears the seal lip.
Pull the clutch, and flywheel examine for wetness at the lip. Also try to move the crankshaft,..Up/down & left/right. In/out is normal.
If it moves....bearings/seals are worn. R & R.
 
Sawman, On reed valve engine theory. If the reed is broken the compression will be affected. Some compression takes place in the crankcase and this 'pre-compressed' charge is delivered through the transfer ports (or slots) to the combustion chamber where it is further comprerssed before light off. If the reed is broken, the 'pre-compression' can't happen as the charge is just as likely to flow back out the carb than to stay in the crankcase, delivering a smaller charge to the combustion chamber. Not wanting to start a fight, just maybe learn something if I'm wrong.
 
Have some good pics of you, and the Saw Fest crew I'll post this week end. Since Monday my feet left burn out marks on the ground, and I'm just landing.
Leaving Sunday night, or early Monday for Pittsburgs NRA show.

Yes and no.
Once the piston ring gets above the transfer port compression is affected by the cylinder, piston, and ring(s).
 

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