Anyone know anything about Mechanics Liens?

[RED-85-Z51]

I got a situation....

2 weeks ago there was a storm headed toward Florida, me. I had a customer call and say he needed a saw fixed, fast.

I picked it up, and it was a nice CS520 Echo. It was a little rough, and had been run either low on oil, or with a blocked passage, as the bar was cooked, and the chain was seized to the bar. Also the Brake band was broken.

I picked it up Thursday before last, and gave him a Call on Friday, with an estimate of 150 parts, labor and cleanup. He said okay, as long as it was under 150, and he had it first of the week.

So I ran across town picking up a new 20" Bar, Oregon Chain, and a new band. Came back, put it all on and it worked great. Tried to call, no answer.

Tried to call on Monday, morning, left a message, no answer. Tried Tuesday morning, Early, noon, finally got him at 7:00OPM.

He told me "I aint got the money, not till end of the week"

By this time, the storm was headed towards South Florida, away from us...so it wasnt a priority for him.

He told me he might call me on Wednesday...but he would call on Friday...

Well, I tried calling on Friday, Saturday, and he wont answer the phone, or return my messages.

Tried today, no Joy.

So Anyone know how I go about doing a mechanics lein? OR how can I legally take possession of the saw and sell it to get my money back out of it.?

Heck, Id give the business 150 out of my pocket for it...I just hate having finished work in Limbo, with an open invoice.

 

[NWCS]

send a registered letter stating he has 30 days to pay for the repairs, if the money is not paid in that 30 day period then you may sell the saw for the price owed. i do not think you can do any less than 30 days. it is also very important that it be sent registered mail.

 

[retoocs555]

Do the above, also you'll want the document notarized and a photo copy of it for yourself.

I don't think this is a good case for a mechanic's lein.

 

[Woodie]

Be careful...the laws regarding things like mechanic's liens vary so widely from state to state that you probably need to get advice from someone living in Florida. I'm not saying either of the two prior responders are wrong, I'm just saying that the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) has holes in it you could throw an MS660 through.

Each state has its own way of doing things. In California, you would probably need to send him a registered letter, wait thirty days, then mow the guy's yard before taking possession. In Texas, you could just drive over to his house and shoot him.

Florida's somewhere in between.

Any other shop owners locally you could talk to?

 

[computeruser]

Without actually knowing the law in Florida, I'd guess that most courts would find 90 days to be reasonable even if it deviates from the requirements of the applicable statutes. Every 30 days he gets a certified return reciept mailing about the status of his saw and if you have heard nothing within 90 days, then I think you'd be safe in keeping or reselling the saw.

 

[TopJimmy]

Throw on a storage charge. Ultimately you may not legally be able to recover the storage fee (probably depends on state statutes), but it will encourage him to pick it up sooner that later. You could even state that on a certain date, a storage fee of $x dollars per day will be applied back to the date of completion of the repairs.

In Kansas, I think that Mechanic's Liens apply only to real property. There are other avenues for personal property, but I am not sure exactly what they are. The storage units post legal notices the newspaper once or twice before the dispose of the property.

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, it is too little money to spend any time or money researching the state statutes.

Jim

 

[Woodie]

Without actually knowing the law in Florida, I'd guess that most courts would find 90 days to be reasonable even if it deviates from the requirements of the applicable statutes. Every 30 days he gets a certified return reciept mailing about the status of his saw and if you have heard nothing within 90 days, then I think you'd be safe in keeping or reselling the saw.

Again, I would use caution here. I used to be a banker in Florida (God help me), and as such I dealt with our bank's Special Assets department on a regular basis. (They were kind of like the bank's version of a Doberman pinscher.) I never saw a judge bend the law in favor of a business. As a matter of fact, where there was an applicable statute to work with (versus common-law precedent), I never saw a judge bend a law at all. "What does the statute say? Did you do that? Okay then, case dismissed."

Occassionally you would find a sympathetic judge who would "interpret" common law (read: make up his own sh!t), but it was always in favor of the consumer. Always.

There are two things you have going here: (1) The price of the item is likely not worth the consumer taking it to court over, and (2) Possesion is 9/10ths of the law.

If you've got a good relationship with your banker, talk to them. He might shy away from giving you direct legal advice, but he might also point you in the direction to find it easily.

 

[spike60]

Red;

I think that you have to give this guy more time. I'd say at least a month. Then what I usually do is leave a couple of messages indicating that he is OBLIGATED to pick up the saw or you may add storage charges or sell the saw for the cost of the repair to recover your costs. Usually, just the hint that time, and your patience, is running out will do the trick.

Is it by the rules? Technically, probably not, but sometimes you need to bend the rules or simply make your own. We had a tractor for over 2 years. After I got fed up I went to the house where it came from and it was empty. Tried the phone number we had; it was disconnected. Sold it to a friend. Sure enough, a month later the family calls looking for the tractor. Told me I had no right to sell it. I said, "Well, it's gone. YOU take ME to court." Never heard another word.

 

[missing]

You may want to go here

hello,

go to this link and pick which lien is best suited for your situation.

The 2006 Florida Statutes

Title XL
REAL AND PERSONAL PROPERTY Chapter 713
LIENS, GENERALLY View Entire Chapter

PART II

MISCELLANEOUS LIENS

You should enforce your lien. Did you give the person a receipt for their chain saw, does your receipt have a notation for storage and unclaimed items. Look in the definitions of the statute that you may use and make sure your lawsuit details the specifications and definitions of that specific lien.

Serve the party via Register Receipt Return Mail. And/or make sure all correspondence is via this method or FedEx. Signature requested. A fax is another method to use, make sure Florida will allow fax messages as admissable in the court. If so fax them to death. Send a demand letter detailing the charges and storages fees to date of the letter. At that point you have put the party on notice that you expect to get paid for your services and storage.

Correct it will take time and a little money. And the possibility always exists that you may loose the suit. But you will have a valuable learning experience from the situation. Not one that may be repeated on you in the future, i would bet.

good luck

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE OR THE UNAUTHORIZED PRACTICE OF LAW IN FLORIDA.
not screaming, making the disclaimer easy to read.
just putting the process in some sort of perspective.
the legal process is a process that slows down the instant reactions and allows time to think about consequences and reactions.

 

[sawinredneck]

Dude may have gone to the lake for the weekend with the family and call you bright and early in the am. I went through this about a month ago with a lawnmower. Lady wanted it fixed and needed a payment plan, love those jobs BTW!! Didn't hear from her, didn't hear from her, finally one night her ex showed up and cut me a check for the whole thing! I proptly ran to the bank the next morning and cashed it, but all ended well!!
Just have a little more paitence there red, it is a big holiday weekend ya know!!
Andy

 

[Andy1234]

In MO, you MUST have a signed copy of a work order / invoice with all work and charges listed before you can proceed.

Your state may be different, FWIW.

Andy

 

[RED-85-Z51]

I had a lady 2 years ago...what a trip.

Called, said she needed her mower fixed. So I drove to her house, and she was an older lady, easily in her late 70's, or into her 80's.

Her Husband had just passed away a few months prior, that was the first thing she told me.

The mower was behind her house. IT was an old Yazoo Rear Engine rider. It needed a belt, blades, battery, oil change, filters, and lord knows what else, but it was fixable.

Next to it was an old Wheel Horse Tractor, with deck, minor rust, looked 5/10, didnt run. Next to that was an old JD 310, considerable rust, had a deck, didnt run, looked rough.

In her garage was a painted WH frame. No seat or anything...and a Kohler Engine, which was incomplete.

She then told me that she had 0 dollars to pay for the repairs to the Yazoo. I did some quick math in my head and told her:

Belt- 30
Blades-25
Battery-25
-Oil change, and tune up-25
Plus labor and whatever else was wrong with it. It had been sitting for at least 5 years.

I told her minimum bill would be around 175, assuming it needed nothing else.

She told me she would "barter" the bill, by giving me the painted frame, and incomplete engine....

I told her the frame was useless to me, and the engine would need alot of parts to be sellable. ( starter, ignition, covers, flywheel) and that I simply couldnt do it for that deal. But I WOULD consider a trade for one of the complete tractors she had, as I would stand a chance of being able to get my money back, and that I was willign to work with her on the deal so it was all fair.

Then it turned....

"oh, MY son warned me about shifty eyed SOB's like you"
"you are just trying to swindle an old lady out of her stuff"
"that JD was my late husbands, and it is worth over $1000...And the WH over $750

" Get the Heck off my property, I hope you go out of business you snake"

I explained to her that I wasnt a charity organization, and I have to be sure to make sure that I can at least break even on any deal I do. I told her that no other shop in town would be willing to trade work for equipment.

I explained that I was not trying to cheat anybody out of anything, but that I couldnt get any of themoney I spent on her mower back, with the frame and incomplete engine. But I could without a doubt fixup one of those complete mowers and sell them, and get my money back.

She flipped...and told me she would just have one of the "brothers" at church work on it...

Well, the "brother" she was talking about happened to be a friend of mine. He said that the mowers are still sitting there..he went to look at the Yazoo, and siad it needed a few more parts, and that she wasnt willing to pay for the parts..she tried to give him the frame and engine too

Oh well, Im glad it ended up the way it did...it only costed me the gas to drive out to her house.

Cant please everyone..and I no longer do any "Barters". Too much trouble...

 

[Justsaws]

Red it can be hard to get a lien for a business transaction if you are not a registered business. I do not know the status of your operation. It is also almost impossible to win with out paper work. Hold the saw but understand that unless you have signed work receipts or estimates you have probably got no right to the item in question, only the materials that you purchased.

Most of the saw shops around here wait at least 90 days before sending out the first letter. Then one letter a month for three months. There are also the weekly phone calls. They usually do not sell the saw until at least 12 months. It is a battle that I have been told they cannot win. I have heard many horror stories and a couple of them have had to replace saws they had sold.

It bites.

 

[spike60]

Another way to get burned is when people on the phone give you a credit card number to order or hold something. It is meaningless. He might as well give you his wifes shoe size.

The reason is that without a signed sales draft, the customer can successfully dispute a charge. Say a customer calls and special orders a $200 part that you would never keep in stock. If he changes his mind, you are stuck with the part. You can't run the guys card and tell him he has to pick it up. This is a case of a consumer protection law that has the unintended effect of allowing dishonest customers to screw a business.

The answer? Another business that I know has a form that the customer must sign and fax back that states they are authorizing the store to run the card number. They came up with this after getting screwed out of a $2000 woodstove that they installed for someone! It seems to work.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

So Anyone know how I go about doing a mechanics lein? OR how can I legally take possession of the saw and sell it to get my money back out of it.?

Call your Chamber of Commerce, or call a lawyer. It's a legal issue. If you act on the advice of a bunch of guys on the Internet, you could find yourself in even MORE of a "situation"!

 

[TopJimmy]

Mark is right, we could get you in trouble. Violation of consumer protection laws often and be punished by a penalty of many times what you are owed. That being said, I wouldn't get too excited about all of this. Since you could pull the money out of your pocket, they your business can survive without this revenue. Sit on it for a while. He may come by and pick it up. I would not be a concerned about the paper work as some have stated. In most state you have a verbal binding contract. He could lie and say that he never authorized repairs, but that seems unlikely.

I am a little unclear as to how long the saw has been done. I would wait at least 2 - 4 weeks before I got too worked up.

Jim

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Some of you folks need to take a basic business law course. I see some recommending adding storage charges and whatnot.

Try that with someone who knows anything about business law and has a bad attitude, and they will be putting your wallet in a world of hurt. If you didn't get agreement to those conditions UP FRONT, you won't find many judges seeing it your way if you try to add them after the fact.

That's why most business documents - even a dry cleaner's receipt! - have all that fine print in them, and why a smart businessman has that signed by the customer before he does any work at all.

 

[TopJimmy]

The fine print on a dry cleaner's ticket may do little more than discourge the hurt party from attempting to recover funds because they think that they do not have a case. Most of those disclaimers fail to meet the "Meeting of the minds" test.

I am unaware of how addding storage would hurt his wallet. I suppose that if he comes to pick up his saw and you do not return it untill he pays the storage, he might be able to prove damages. I think that it would be tough. I agree that the Judge may say you are not entitled to storage, but he would disallow the storage fee without affect to the remainder of the case.

The storage idea is to motivate the customer to pick up the saw, not make profit. You can always give up the charge at a later date. I use interest as the same tool for money that is owed to me. It is funny how quickly some people will pay when they realize that it will cost them to wait. It is not unusual for people to ask me to waive the interest. I always respond, you bet, just get the check in the mail today. Once we have made that deal, they always pay quickly.

Jim

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I am unaware of how addding storage would hurt his wallet. I suppose that if he comes to pick up his saw and you do not return it untill he pays the storage, he might be able to prove damages.

Exactly. The saw owner, if he's at all business savvy, could take him to small claims and clean his clock. No judge is going to side with a business owner that tries to invent contract terms that were not agreed to by the customer. You just don’t get to change the ground rules after the game starts. And given such a scenario, you are going to prejudice the rest of the case.

The storage idea is to motivate the customer to pick up the saw, not make profit. You can always give up the charge at a later date. I use interest as the same tool for money that is owed to me. It is funny how quickly some people will pay when they realize that it will cost them to wait. It is not unusual for people to ask me to waive the interest. I always respond, you bet, just get the check in the mail today. Once we have made that deal, they always pay quickly.

That's fine, as long as one of two conditions exist:

1. The conditions are clearly made part of the agreement beforehand.
2. Your customers are too stupid to know any better.

 

[TopJimmy]

I think that if the customer fails to pick up the saw after a reasonable amount of time (we could debate what reasonable is, at least 30 day imo) he would have a very hard time demonstrating that he had been damaged by loss of use of his saw. If the saw was so central to his business, he would have picked it up right away. I think that in a situation like this that certain terms are implied, I will fix your saw for x dollars and you will pay for and pick up your saw in a reasonable amount of time. By expecting Red to hold the saw for an unlimited amount of time, the customer has changed the terms to terms not agreed to by Red.

I have a construction company and rarely give notice that I have the right to file a lien, this does not change my right to file the lien. Of course we come back to good legal advice. The state statutes determine what notice if any must be given. There may also be a difference based on whether this falls under the consumer protection laws. If the customer is a commercial customer, then it may not, but if he is a homeowner with a saw, he may have more protection. However a homeowner would have a very difficult time proving damages.

I would be comfortable to try several approaches to getting the customer motivated to pay, however I would wait a long time before selling the saw. Red, you could do a little research on the net and perhaps find some info that applies to your state.

Mark, I hope you do take this to seriously, I enjoy batting these ideas back and forth, I can always learn a little.

Jim