Anyone Know Anything About Vintage Cat D7 Dozers? Trying to Rescue a Non-Running One...

[slowcar281]

The first fuel filter was full. The other two were full, too. Diesel looked pretty good.

Got hung up on getting the rack freed. Any thoughts? Is it totally mechanical or do I need power to get it to operate?

Thanks

I’m no expert but I would have to imagine it’s totally mechanical on something of that vintage.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Start it on gasoline and don't hydraulic the engine. Starting fluid might be needed if it does attempt on gas sprayed in it. Best to try on diesel first to wet the cylinders good.
Getting the pump pressure needed was likely why it ran crappy before. Injectors are likely to be hung by now. If it does indeed run you'll be lucky if the injectors all work right. Get that stuck clutch sorted first by dragging it and bump the clutch if it is stuck. If your anywhere up near my way I have four big Cat 12V batteries out and like new. Worked on few of these thirty plus years ago. Fun to operate not so much fun to get the timing spot on.

 

[bulletpruf]

Hyster winch controls: If like mine (Hyster D4E) you should have 3 levers, I couldn't see from photos if they were there as expected.

Left hand one is engage/free spool, it should be in the rearward (actually probably centre or straight up) position for free spool, forward for engaged. When engaged the main clutch operates the winch.

Center lever--the tall one--should be brake, it will be the one with the pall and ratchet segment. Pull back for brake on, forward to release.

Right hand lever is forward/reverse; forward for payout, rearward for haul in.

Two levers on this one. One has a busted cable, the other cable is frozen. I'm thinking I'm going to have to fix the issue at the winch itself.

 

[bulletpruf]

The carriage is half the value of the cat. How's the drives sprockets are they oval out? Reach under the rails and feel the pins are they flat on both sides, if not you can rotate the pins. If the pins are flat on both side, they've been rotated already. The rails have spec measurements, measure the height from the bottom of Grousers to bottom of the rail. The delta tells what percentage the carriage is.

The undercarriage is pretty much junk, as best as I can tell. Someone built up the grousers but the pads are paper thin. One of the tensioner springs is broken into two pieces. Sprockets do have bolt-on segments, so maybe they can be saved. I'm not sure about how to assess the chain. See pics.

Around here there is couple places you can get parts, there use to be a guy in Salem Oregon "Randy Cole" who specialized in undercarriage and shipped. Sorry I don't have his number anymore. Also, there was guy who specialized in old cat like you're in Amity, Oregon... it's kind of heavy Equipment wrecking yards. I sure there are company similar closure to your area. Are the front Idlers thin? The carriage is everything on those old cats, unless you have flat ground on your place if runs out of the tracks all the time that is not a fun job. I'm thinking that cat weight is +55K.

It's a heavy sucker for sure; I think 25+ tons. Thanks for the info on parts sources.

Have the injector rail rebuilt can be expensive and setup there should be lots of place near you that can give idea what that would cost. Interesting it frozen up. When you turn the motor over did it spin long enough to see the oil pressure come up. Hope you can get it running so you can check out the steering clutch and the finials? The winch shouldn't be too bad to fix but make sure the hook if off the cable if it's spinning. The shuttle probable froze. You'll be amazed what a D7 can do. Best of luck hope it all works out.

No hook on the cable, thankfully. I'll see about possible injector pump rebuild if I get that far. Thanks!

 

[bulletpruf]

To answer your question, about bleeding the rack every system is a little different, so I not sure how your is. But in general, there should be a pump and a valve, open the valve and you should be able to get fuel up to that point with the pump. Close the valve and crack the fuel lines fitting at each injector. I'm not sure if the pump will push fuel up to that point on your system but it might... otherwise you have to spin the motor over to push fuel to the injectors. Those fuel fitting don't have to be opened that much 1/2 turn maybe 1 turn. As the fuel pressure comes up you see the cracked fitting start to get wet keep... priming until you get a good flow. Close the fittings down a bit, it may start smoking at that point and it may even fire on a few cylinders. You might give it a shot of Ether, but not to much. Believe it or not you can coast start those cats if you have something that can pull it, if the carriage is decent... they roll pretty easy. I used to coast start mine old cat all the time until I replaced the pony motor with electric starter.

Bleeding the rack doesn't sound very difficult, but freeing it up is giving me fits. The rack control rod seems to be frozen. I soaked it in Kroil, but I didn't bear down too hard on it.

Everything looks pretty good in the rack and governor area; see pics and video.

 

[sean donato]

You're gonna have some time and coin invested in those tracks and undercarriage for sure. I'd personally give it a hard pass unless you're hard up for a project.

 

[sean donato]

Bleeding the rack doesn't sound very difficult, but freeing it up is giving me fits. The rack control rod seems to be frozen. I soaked it in Kroil, but I didn't bear down too hard on it.

Everything looks pretty good in the rack and governor area; see pics and video.

The rack will bleed itself out when you crack the injection lines. And it's not the rack you're bleeding it's the plungers and barrels, the rack is what keeps them giving the same amount of fuel between each other and connected to the govenor.

 

[bulletpruf]

Like James said "The carriage is half the value of the cat" at this point It's not worth more than scrap iron price. If you can't get it running and can assess to cost of repair think I would pass this up.

I figure it's a parts machine at best if this is a purely financial decision. It would likely cost about $30k to get it to where it would be capable of pushing dirt again between the undercarriage, engine, hydraulics (including re-chroming all the cylinders), wiring, etc. And several thousand to move it.

But I've been known to make really dumb decisions...

 

[bulletpruf]

I’m no expert but I would have to imagine it’s totally mechanical on something of that vintage.

That's what the folks at the amcoc.org site are telling me - no power needed. Thanks

 

[bulletpruf]

Start it on gasoline and don't hydraulic the engine. Starting fluid might be needed if it does attempt on gas sprayed in it. Best to try on diesel first to wet the cylinders good.
Getting the pump pressure needed was likely why it ran crappy before. Injectors are likely to be hung by now. If it does indeed run you'll be lucky if the injectors all work right. Get that stuck clutch sorted first by dragging it and bump the clutch if it is stuck. If your anywhere up near my way I have four big Cat 12V batteries out and like new. Worked on few of these thirty plus years ago. Fun to operate not so much fun to get the timing spot on.

Thanks for the info. I do need to see if the clutch is free. I also suspect you're right on the injectors.

You're in Joisey? If so, too far. I'm in San Antonio, Tx.

Scott

 

[bulletpruf]

You're gonna have some time and coin invested in those tracks and undercarriage for sure. I'd personally give it a hard pass unless you're hard up for a project.

Yeah, I have projects stacked up. This will likely just be an exercise in getting it to start and then walking away.

If I decide to get a vintage Cat, I need to look for a D3 that I can haul on an equipment trailer behind an F450 or similar.

 

[bulletpruf]

The rack will bleed itself out when you crack the injection lines. And it's not the rack you're bleeding it's the plungers and barrels, the rack is what keeps them giving the same amount of fuel between each other and connected to the govenor.

Thanks

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I had an old D7 for a number of years...

I don't care how good it runs, if the UC isn't pretty darn good, I don't want it! PEROID!

SR

 

[ATpro]

It would likely cost about $30k to get it to where it would be capable of pushing dirt

You can buy a more modern working machine for what you would be putting in that one. Wife worked for a Fiat Allis Dealer years ago and when I was contracting to do Prescribe Burns I would rent an FD 10 or an FD 7- 6 way blade, they both worked well at fire lane and fire control.

Really liked the FD7 because it was small, easy to maneuver, and still had the power to push fire lanes. Ended up buying the FD 7, didn't have many hours on it and I had put most of them on it.

One thing to think about when buying a machine is do you have enough work to justify investing the money, and what would be the resale value. When you own a machine like these it has to be in the dirt and working to help pay for the machine and maintenance. Every thing is on a time line and cost money every time the machine cranks up.

 

[bulletpruf]

You can buy a more modern working machine for what you would be putting in that one. Wife worked for a Fiat Allis Dealer years ago and when I was contracting to do Prescribe Burns I would rent an FD 10 or an FD 7- 6 way blade, they both worked well at fire lane and fire control.

Really liked the FD7 because it was small, easy to maneuver, and still had the power to push fire lanes. Ended up buying the FD 7, didn't have many hours on it and I had put most of them on it.

One thing to think about when buying a machine is do you have enough work to justify investing the money, and what would be the resale value. When you own a machine like these it has to be in the dirt and working to help pay for the machine and maintenance. Every thing is on a time line and cost money every time the machine cranks up.

Not super interested in a newer machine; I'm just looking for something to tinker with. No real need for it. And it's very unlikely that I'll end up owning this D7. Just too far gone. But pretty good chance that I'll end up with a smaller dozer from that era that's in much better condition - a well-cared for D3 from the 1950's would be right up my alley.

Thanks

 

[bulletpruf]

Well, I posted a video of my trials and tribulations in case anyone is interested.

 

[lwmibc]

Hey, nice to meet you, that was a great video to give us all an indication of what you're trying to do.

I agree with what I'm sure you're thinking about the undercarriage; it has some serious issues that will be costly. I feel for the seller, he must have used it and has good memories--but he won't be writing the checks for fixing all that. Sure could use some searching for replacements. A lot of respondents will be recoiling at the appearance of that tensioner spring.

Personally I would have never have allowed contaminated fuel to get into any lines past the first filter, I assume intended as the water separator. My recollection was that I saw a shut-off valve just outside of the fuel line coming out of the tank; I'd have shut that off first before removing that primary filter, and then not put the housing back on without a filter in it. Not a criticism, just me.

The winch, which was my contribution as I'm running a Hyster of that vintage--and that works just fine--on a 1965 D4D, is that it runs off the PTO which is engaged at any time the transmission clutch is engaged (ie, not a 'live PTO'). The second lever on that D7 might be a forward-neutral-reverse (payout-freespool-haulin) lever combining what takes 2 levers on mine.

If you need, let me know and I'll delve into my manual top see where the other end of the broken bouden cable ends up inside the winch.

 

[bulletpruf]

Hey, nice to meet you, that was a great video to give us all an indication of what you're trying to do.

I agree with what I'm sure you're thinking about the undercarriage; it has some serious issues that will be costly. I feel for the seller, he must have used it and has good memories--but he won't be writing the checks for fixing all that. Sure could use some searching for replacements. A lot of respondents will be recoiling at the appearance of that tensioner spring.

Personally I would have never have allowed contaminated fuel to get into any lines past the first filter, I assume intended as the water separator. My recollection was that I saw a shut-off valve just outside of the fuel line coming out of the tank; I'd have shut that off first before removing that primary filter, and then not put the housing back on without a filter in it. Not a criticism, just me.

The winch, which was my contribution as I'm running a Hyster of that vintage--and that works just fine--on a 1965 D4D, is that it runs off the PTO which is engaged at any time the transmission clutch is engaged (ie, not a 'live PTO'). The second lever on that D7 might be a forward-neutral-reverse (payout-freespool-haulin) lever combining what takes 2 levers on mine.

If you need, let me know and I'll delve into my manual top see where the other end of the broken bouden cable ends up inside the winch.

Glad you enjoyed the video. We had a lot of fun making it.

The seller actually never used the tractor. His dad bought it and soon afterwards got cancer. He died before he had a chance to do much of anything with it.

Good point on the contaminated fuel. It would have been easy enough to close that valve.

Thanks for the info on the winch, and I certainly would be much obliged if you were able to figure anything out on how to disengage it.

Scott

 

[lwmibc]

According to my D4E Hyster manual--the forward/reverse and engage/disengage levers are accessed by removing the top covers on the winch. They will be topside, forward (toward the fuel tank) of the drum.

The brake band is accessed behind a cover low on the right side.

 

[bulletpruf]

According to my D4E Hyster manual--the forward/reverse and engage/disengage levers are accessed by removing the top covers on the winch. They will be topside, forward (toward the fuel tank) of the drum.

The brake band is accessed behind a cover low on the right side.

Thanks!