Anyone set a tree down slowly with a rigging line and porta-wrap?
- Thread starter TreeandLand
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Yes, but SWL is for p u s s y s sometimes... especially if you're not shock loading your rigging!
Gotta know what you're doing... the only way I learned what ropes/trees, etc. can handle, was by pushing the limits in my my younger, more immortal feeling days.. really not sure how the newer school is supposed to go about it.. kinda the same I imagine.. just with more BS to wade through along he way. lol.
Glad I lived through it, and am fortunate to have found a happy medium these days.. I guess that's what having experience comes down to.
best of luck!
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flushcut
Addicted to ArboristSite
Is it possible to build a large bomb pad and fall the tree on that after it has been limbed up?
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
I agreee with some (but not all, lol) of what you are saying, MDS.
I have occasional nightmares as reminders of testing immorality and SWL's!
One example was a two week stint in a hospital 5 years ago from a preventable act of stupidity that really should have killed me or at least ended my career. Got myself catapulted out of an old Asplund while using it to crane a log into the back of the truck, (that hank of old bluestreak failed at somewhat less than 8100 lb) and landed on my back very, very close to the exhaust stack. But I digress. My son was a good lad, and folded up the boom and lifted the outriggers BEFORE making the 911 call. Told the cops, medics, doctors that I had simply slipped and fallen off the roof of the truck.
With at least some of the newer portawraps (Sherrill's stainless one being an example) being produced in China, I think ignoring SWLs and pushing things to their limits may yield unforgiving and maybe lethal consequences far in excess of the deductible on your commercial business insurance policy.
I have occasional nightmares as reminders of testing immorality and SWL's!
One example was a two week stint in a hospital 5 years ago from a preventable act of stupidity that really should have killed me or at least ended my career. Got myself catapulted out of an old Asplund while using it to crane a log into the back of the truck, (that hank of old bluestreak failed at somewhat less than 8100 lb) and landed on my back very, very close to the exhaust stack. But I digress. My son was a good lad, and folded up the boom and lifted the outriggers BEFORE making the 911 call. Told the cops, medics, doctors that I had simply slipped and fallen off the roof of the truck.
With at least some of the newer portawraps (Sherrill's stainless one being an example) being produced in China, I think ignoring SWLs and pushing things to their limits may yield unforgiving and maybe lethal consequences far in excess of the deductible on your commercial business insurance policy.
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I didn't know they had load handling capability.
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
They don't. You know this, I know this, and so does everybody else here.
But I can't tell you how many times I "got away" with using a 1972 Asplundh (on an '86 International S-1900) to "crane" logs into the back of the truck.
Incidently, the summer after my human cannonball act, I sold that truck to a competitor (with FULL disclosure - plus we used to work together a fair bit, and still help each other out on jobs once in awhile), and he is still operating it.
As the third owner (original one was the City of Barrie, Ontario) it will probably kill him someday.
But I can't tell you how many times I "got away" with using a 1972 Asplundh (on an '86 International S-1900) to "crane" logs into the back of the truck.
Incidently, the summer after my human cannonball act, I sold that truck to a competitor (with FULL disclosure - plus we used to work together a fair bit, and still help each other out on jobs once in awhile), and he is still operating it.
As the third owner (original one was the City of Barrie, Ontario) it will probably kill him someday.
millbilly
ArboristSite Guru
Are you saying , you were in the bucket, loading logs tied to the boom? The rope you were using to lift the logs broke, and and it shot you out of the bucket?
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
Guilty.
tree job was basically done - brush had been chipped, all that was left to do was get the damn logs in the truck and go home.
We were tired, hot, thirsty as hell, and I didn't bother putting saddle back on or tying in to boom.
Could have run the controls from the ground, but it was easier to see what was going on from the bucket.
The rest of the story = pain. T12, L1&2 & pelvis fractures, and good gash in head. happened in mid-July; was climbing again by early October, but Holy Cow, did that accident ever smarten me up. Made me seriously consider getting into another line of work.
Also guilty in the past of using that poor truck to hoist up roof trusses on houses on several occaisions, and in one memorable act of blatant stupidity, to help an electrical contractor buddy to lift two hydro poles into holes at a private campground.
I have seen my buddy (who bought the truck from me) use his F-550 and a portawrap with 3/4" stablebraid to lift hung up trees, and frankly it scares the heck out of me. I think it is a accident just waiting to happen - if that portawrap lets go, whatever is in it's path is going to get demolished.
tree job was basically done - brush had been chipped, all that was left to do was get the damn logs in the truck and go home.
We were tired, hot, thirsty as hell, and I didn't bother putting saddle back on or tying in to boom.
Could have run the controls from the ground, but it was easier to see what was going on from the bucket.
The rest of the story = pain. T12, L1&2 & pelvis fractures, and good gash in head. happened in mid-July; was climbing again by early October, but Holy Cow, did that accident ever smarten me up. Made me seriously consider getting into another line of work.
Also guilty in the past of using that poor truck to hoist up roof trusses on houses on several occaisions, and in one memorable act of blatant stupidity, to help an electrical contractor buddy to lift two hydro poles into holes at a private campground.
I have seen my buddy (who bought the truck from me) use his F-550 and a portawrap with 3/4" stablebraid to lift hung up trees, and frankly it scares the heck out of me. I think it is a accident just waiting to happen - if that portawrap lets go, whatever is in it's path is going to get demolished.
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Addicted to ArboristSite
Ya know they say that the SWL of a porty is 2g's so the breaking is maybe 20g's using the X10 safety factor, but what is it really? Does anybody know?
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
My big problem with SWL, no one talks about tensile. Een with ropes they talk about ABS, or average breaking strength. Minimum breaking strength should be know by the user.
FWIW, I've heard at shows that hardwear uses a 5:1 or 4:1 ratio, the 10:1 is a rule of thumb for shock loading tree rope.
FWIW, I've heard at shows that hardwear uses a 5:1 or 4:1 ratio, the 10:1 is a rule of thumb for shock loading tree rope.
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Addicted to ArboristSite
Ok so that being said 10g's at 5:1 for the porty which I think is a little conservative for the large one but it is a starting point. I would have to agree with you JPS minimum breaking strength should be the standard instead of the ABS.
TimberJack_7
ArboristSite Operative
Yeah the key to hanging those trees was to not shockload the rope. All I did was make a low cut, a few inches off the ground, ok, maybe more like 8 - 10 inches off the ground. Enough to let the rope stretch but not have the load of the entire tree on it, also keeping the tree upright in the process and allowing the butt to come into contact with the ground. I used a cant hook to get the tree to come off the stump. After that you just cut the tree log in 36 - 48in sections and limb it as your ground guy lowers it nice and easy. As long as your lowering system holds up (know your equipment limits) you will have control of it, but take care not to walk directly underneath a hung tree for any reason.
It sounds like it might be a good idea to hang the two smaller pines from the large one as you have suggested. Once that is done, why not just block the what is left of the big pine out?
PS - When using a block for hanging a tree, beware the "triangle of death". There was an ABC employee killed out this way several years ago. Someone had set a block up in a tree to use a rope and a truck to pull some logs out of a steep downhill dropoff. Well, the block was at the point of the triangle, and the truck was pulling a log up the hill. Between the position of the truck and the position of the log, both working ends of the rope were at about a 45 degree angle, basically forming a perfect triangle. Well unfortunately, IIRC correctly, the log got hung up but the guy driving the truck kept pulling. As a result, the sling securing the block in the tree broke and sent the block rocketing down right through an employees hard hat and killing him instantly and injuring the guy that was right next to him too.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Their argument is that MBS could be outlier data, well throw the anomolies out and tell me what the bottom of the curve is. Statistically significant low end of the curve? ahh screw it, MBS I', sticking to it
flushcut
Addicted to ArboristSite
Their argument is that MBS could be outlier data, well throw the anomolies out and tell me what the bottom of the curve is. Statistically significant low end of the curve? ahh screw it, MBS I', sticking to it
:agree2:
