He is talking about power valves in sleds. It is a liquid cooled two stroke injector oil.
Anyone use amsoil products in there saw
- Thread starter jmorgan71587
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
He is talking about power valves in sleds. It is a liquid cooled two stroke injector oil.
tdi-rick
Addicted to ArboristSite
Castrol make Stihl's lubes worldwide. I think they may know a thing or two about lubrication too.
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
I've ran nothing but Saber Pro Amsoil in my saws for years now... I've experimented with a bunch of ratios... I now run 70-80:1. When I pull a saw down, all the inside is coated in a nice blue oil. It's good stuff IMO.
Last edited:
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
Using amsoil is like using a cheap rubber. Sure, the company might make some wild claims and you might do ok with it, but are you willing to pay the price of a meltdown?
topgut
ArboristSite Operative
I run Amsoil Sabre in all my 2 stroke equipment. I run it at a mix of 40:1 in everything. Even old blue SXL auto. Never a problem, never a fouled plug.
I love it and will continue to use it.
I love it and will continue to use it.
My buddy was an Amsoil dealer in the late 70's early 80's. We all ran dirt bikes and chainsaws on it at 100 to 1 way back then. Nobody had a meltdown unless their carb [mixture] was to blame. It is scary at first, but when you see somebody pound the snot out of a IT 175 and 465 and they run great....
I would probably still be running it if I had a close convenient dealer.
I would probably still be running it if I had a close convenient dealer.
oneoldbanjo
Addicted to ArboristSite
I used to be a skeptic about Amsoil Sabre like a lot of you.....but I bought a quart to use in my Trials motorcycle and I now understand it a bit more and I do trust it....even at 100:1 (The national distibuter of my motorcycle told me that he has used it in competition at 125:1 with no problems). The oil is a higher concentration of lubricant than most oils and even at 100:1 ratios I believe you are getting an equal amount of lubricant......there is just less solvent in the oil. The Sabre oil is for premix only and is too thick to be used in injection systems. I suppose that if Amsoil were to add more solvents and recommend mixing at 50:1 ratios everyone would feel more comfortable with it and they wouldn't be criticized so much - but their oil would still be providing the same lubrication and the engine wouldn't notice that anything had changed.
I am pretty darn sure that if you run any quality synthetic oil at the ratios that the manufacturer (saw or oil) recommend you will not have any trouble as a result of the oil. I am not yet ready to state that there is any need for you to run the Sabre at 100:1 in your chainsaw.....but the Sabre Oil is made to run in small equipment at that ratio and I will be running it in my weed eaters at 100:1 this summer and see how it performs. I do believe that most scorched cylinders and broken engines come from running an engine on too lean of a fuel mixture and seldom a result of oil breakdown. The oil you choose is pretty much just a personal choice and there is very little chance of you changing the oil you use just because I (or anyone else) posted their opinion on here. If you keep track of how your saw is running and make repairs when you sense the saw is acting up (running lean) then you are likely to never have a failure until you just wear it out. I believe most scorched cylinders are a result of people accidently using straight gas, fuel systems that get air leaks and lean the mixture out, old fuel that has allowed the oil to seprate from the mix, or people that set their carb mixture too lean.
Run what ever oil you like - but don't criticize oil that you have never used and don't know anything about.
I am pretty darn sure that if you run any quality synthetic oil at the ratios that the manufacturer (saw or oil) recommend you will not have any trouble as a result of the oil. I am not yet ready to state that there is any need for you to run the Sabre at 100:1 in your chainsaw.....but the Sabre Oil is made to run in small equipment at that ratio and I will be running it in my weed eaters at 100:1 this summer and see how it performs. I do believe that most scorched cylinders and broken engines come from running an engine on too lean of a fuel mixture and seldom a result of oil breakdown. The oil you choose is pretty much just a personal choice and there is very little chance of you changing the oil you use just because I (or anyone else) posted their opinion on here. If you keep track of how your saw is running and make repairs when you sense the saw is acting up (running lean) then you are likely to never have a failure until you just wear it out. I believe most scorched cylinders are a result of people accidently using straight gas, fuel systems that get air leaks and lean the mixture out, old fuel that has allowed the oil to seprate from the mix, or people that set their carb mixture too lean.
Run what ever oil you like - but don't criticize oil that you have never used and don't know anything about.
I'm about due to make an Amsoil purchase for car oil and am considering getting some 2-stroke oil. I'm debating between the Sabre and Dominator since many of my saws are modded. It sounds like the Dominator would give me better protection, especially for the crank bearings considering the high RPMs some of my saws run. What think ye?
Mama Tried
ArboristSite Operative
Dominator is made for hotter running engines so I would think it would be better for higher than stock rpm saws
Here's what some of my saws are turning, for example, to help give you a better idea what I need. These are all saws that are used for both firewood cutting and GTG racing.
- MS260 = 17,400
- 346XP = 17,000
- MS460 = 15,000
- 084 = 14,000
sbhooper
Addicted to ArboristSite
I started running 100:1 premix first in a small Homelite saw that I owned many years ago. I tried everything that I could to blow that saw up just to prove that 100:1 would not work. Not only could I not blow it up, but I had to retune it-it screamed. It was almost scarey sounding for a little cheapy.
I started running 100:1 in my Husky 257 shortly after buying it in 1997 and it sounded like it should explode at any time. I still run that saw hard and it has never had any interior work.
My wife once took a weed eater that had been running 100:1 premix and mistakenly put pure gas in it. She ran it hard for 15 minutes and then wondered why it did not want to run. I figured it was dead. I dumped out the gas and put in the premix and it is still running fine-that was 13 years ago.
I had a neighbor in New Mexico that had a cheap weed eater that he was ready to throw away. We lived at 5300 feet and the thing just would not run no matter what he did. I talked him into trying the 100:1 and the thing ran like a champ. He was really impressed as was I.
Amsoil is just what it says it is. You can buy cheap oil and save a penny now, or you can buy the expensive stuff and make your gear last longer. The good thing about the Saber oil is that you can run it at whatever mix and not worry. If you accidentally get the mix wrong and make it 100:1 instead of 50:1 or whatever, you have no worries. Try that with standard petroleum oil and see what happens.
As far as the smell is concerned, you have to be kidding. All 2-stroke stinks. If you pick the oil for your expensive machines based on how it smells, then you have a problem that even Amsoil can't fix.
Instead of bashing the oil, go to the website and learn more about it. I refuse to run petroleum oil in anything and besides that, I like to support a home-grown company.
If anyone wants to find out what they would recommend for high-revving engines, just contact the company. They have a fantastic technical assistance division-you won't find that with other companies either.
I started running 100:1 in my Husky 257 shortly after buying it in 1997 and it sounded like it should explode at any time. I still run that saw hard and it has never had any interior work.
My wife once took a weed eater that had been running 100:1 premix and mistakenly put pure gas in it. She ran it hard for 15 minutes and then wondered why it did not want to run. I figured it was dead. I dumped out the gas and put in the premix and it is still running fine-that was 13 years ago.
I had a neighbor in New Mexico that had a cheap weed eater that he was ready to throw away. We lived at 5300 feet and the thing just would not run no matter what he did. I talked him into trying the 100:1 and the thing ran like a champ. He was really impressed as was I.
Amsoil is just what it says it is. You can buy cheap oil and save a penny now, or you can buy the expensive stuff and make your gear last longer. The good thing about the Saber oil is that you can run it at whatever mix and not worry. If you accidentally get the mix wrong and make it 100:1 instead of 50:1 or whatever, you have no worries. Try that with standard petroleum oil and see what happens.
As far as the smell is concerned, you have to be kidding. All 2-stroke stinks. If you pick the oil for your expensive machines based on how it smells, then you have a problem that even Amsoil can't fix.
Instead of bashing the oil, go to the website and learn more about it. I refuse to run petroleum oil in anything and besides that, I like to support a home-grown company.
If anyone wants to find out what they would recommend for high-revving engines, just contact the company. They have a fantastic technical assistance division-you won't find that with other companies either.
Last edited:
Mama Tried
ArboristSite Operative
I would recommend Dominator
Thanks for the clarification. That's what I figured.
tdi-rick
Addicted to ArboristSite
Brad, also consider the viscosity of both.
All the good race 2 stroke lubes are between 13 and 20cSt @100*C, ie. they are SAE 40 or 50 oils. eg. Motul 800 2T, Maxima 927, both Elf HTX's, etc.
Most all the JASO FC/FD oils are around 7-9 cSt for oil injector systems.
Sabre is 13.5 cSt and I wouldn't use at a ratio of greater than 40/50:1, and while primarily a chainsaw oil, Ams say it's OK for bikes, etc.
Dominator, while their prime recommendation for racing 2 strokes is 7.7 cSt @100*C. ( or around the same visc as Castrol Power 1 racing TTS, Motul 710, et al)
Saws are air cooled, and often the cooling is compromised with shavings, saw dust, etc. MX bikes these days are water cooled, hell, even the high output kart engines are water cooled now.
Personally, I'd like some viscosity up my sleeve too for when things get hot.
Straight from the product brochure.
I think Amsoil make some excellent products, and if you can get them for a good price I wouldn't have a problem using most any of their lubes.
All the good race 2 stroke lubes are between 13 and 20cSt @100*C, ie. they are SAE 40 or 50 oils. eg. Motul 800 2T, Maxima 927, both Elf HTX's, etc.
Most all the JASO FC/FD oils are around 7-9 cSt for oil injector systems.
Sabre is 13.5 cSt and I wouldn't use at a ratio of greater than 40/50:1, and while primarily a chainsaw oil, Ams say it's OK for bikes, etc.
Dominator, while their prime recommendation for racing 2 strokes is 7.7 cSt @100*C. ( or around the same visc as Castrol Power 1 racing TTS, Motul 710, et al)
Saws are air cooled, and often the cooling is compromised with shavings, saw dust, etc. MX bikes these days are water cooled, hell, even the high output kart engines are water cooled now.
Personally, I'd like some viscosity up my sleeve too for when things get hot.
Straight from the product brochure.
I think Amsoil make some excellent products, and if you can get them for a good price I wouldn't have a problem using most any of their lubes.
So you're thinking the viscosity of the Dominator may be too thin for use in a hotter running air-coole engine?
tdi-rick
Addicted to ArboristSite
It'd be fine for most use, and would really depend on mix ratio.
An awful lot of people use pre mix/injector oils (ie. 7-9 cSt oils or SAE 20-30) everyday and never ever have a problem.
I'd love to see a TDS on the Stihl Ultra. I'm still guessing it's either rebadged Power 1 Racing, old TTS or a close cousin.
I can't help thinking the bearings and ring seal would be better with the more viscous oil, but it would only start to really be of benefit when approaching kart type outputs/capacity.
Just thinking out loud here.
An awful lot of people use pre mix/injector oils (ie. 7-9 cSt oils or SAE 20-30) everyday and never ever have a problem.
I'd love to see a TDS on the Stihl Ultra. I'm still guessing it's either rebadged Power 1 Racing, old TTS or a close cousin.
I can't help thinking the bearings and ring seal would be better with the more viscous oil, but it would only start to really be of benefit when approaching kart type outputs/capacity.
Just thinking out loud here.
I just looked and was surprised to see that Klotz R50 cSt @ 100 is 18! Maxima Castor 927 is 13.79. K2 is 13.58.
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
Brad, here's a good test for you. Next time you have a saw torn down, make sure the inside of the case is good and clean. When it's all back together... Mix some Amsoil Saber at 80:1, and run a few tanks through it.
Pull it back down, and see how much oil is covering everything. I was Running Saber at 100:1 in my 038 Super... When I pulled it apart, the crank and jug had blue oil droplets on it. Plenty of oil was in there.
80:1?!!!!!!!!! Maybe 50:1, lol. My BIL tied up a blower running an oil at 100:1. I heard of a Lawn Boy doing the same. Oil's not so expensive that I need to run so little, especially when most of mine are ported.
tdi-rick
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yep,
and good old Castrol A747 is 21, Elf HTX 909 is 17.7, (that's the kart specific, 25,000RPM one) Elf 976 is 17.8 (rated to 18,500RPM) Motul 800 2T Off Road (my current fav, as i can get it easily) is 15.5, 800 2T Road is 19.2, Motul Kart 2t is 15.5, and Silkolene Pro 2 SX is the lightweight at 13.5 :greenchainsaw:
and good old Castrol A747 is 21, Elf HTX 909 is 17.7, (that's the kart specific, 25,000RPM one) Elf 976 is 17.8 (rated to 18,500RPM) Motul 800 2T Off Road (my current fav, as i can get it easily) is 15.5, 800 2T Road is 19.2, Motul Kart 2t is 15.5, and Silkolene Pro 2 SX is the lightweight at 13.5 :greenchainsaw:
