Art Martin: Will the Real Logger Please Stand Up

[Art Martin]

JimL,

The Barshop is a multipurpose machine. The main function is to repair and square the rails of chainsaw bars. The Barshop also allows the user to make new bars from old ones. It can regroove bars to .063”, .058” and .050” gauges. It has a hammering mechanism that allows the closing of worn out grooves to the previously mentioned gauges. It has a large split-sanding drum that is good for polishing and removing burrs. It can be used as a cut off wheel for shortening bars and making new bar slots. It has a large grinding wheel that is used for truing the rails and shaping the heels to fit the appropriate sprockets. The grooving wheels are also used to install roller tips.

The Barshop easily tilts to two different positions that allow the user access to the many different functions.

Art Martin

 

[Art Martin]

This is the Barshop with the table tilted in the other position.

Art Martin

 

[Crofter]

Depth Guage Side Clearance

I have been playing around at lightening and narrowing some 3/8 chisel chain according to some of the pointers you have set out. I have come up with a situation that I haven't met in just filing regular chain. Now that I have narrowed the cutters and taken them back to the rear rivet, the sides of the depth guides are just about flush with the outside of the cutter. On green maple it drops down through the cut nicely with no binding, but I wonder what dimesion I should be looking for here. This kind of information is something that is very hard to come by from any other source! Thanks for your time Art.

Frank

 

[Art Martin]

Crofter,

This is a good question and it’s a good time to address it now. I will try to explain the depth gauge side clearances at the several different points as the chain is filed back. These measurements are on a 3/8” Carlton chain tooth.

A new tooth, as it comes from the factory, has the front outside plate extending .028” further than the depth gauge. So there is a clearance of .028”

When you measure the very rear point of the outside plate and keep the depth gauge in its original state, the clearance is then .004”.

When you file the tooth back to over the rear rivet and reduce the depth gauge to its proper setting, the clearance is .015”. This clearance is more than enough.

Now if you dechrome the chain and file the tooth back over the rear and lower the depth gauge to its proper setting, the front of the side plate has about a .006” clearance.

You must remember that the depth gauge has a lean of .040” from the main body of the tooth, so as you lower the depth gauge down, you reduce the amount of the lean.

In my opinion, it is a mistake to file the outside of the depth gauge which will result in a rougher kerf wall. Of course, I’ve tried it and was not happy with the results. Also it is hard to measure the amount you would take off so every tooth would probably end up being different.

Art Martin

 

[Crofter]

Thanks Art

I can imagine the countless hours you have devoted to acquiring this kind of information; it certainly is not armchair engineering!

Frank

 

[Harley]

Art,

When you can find some time. I would appreciate hearing about how you hone the cutters.

I try to remove the burs from filing with a small piece of wood when I file my chains. I find that I end up with a much smoother chain to begin with. It also seems to proform for a slighly longer period of time.

Thanks.

 

[Art Martin]

Harley,

I'll get to the honing subject soon. Right now I'm trying to get some clear close-up pictures of some of the different chain patterns that I had come up in the past. I wish Doug was here to show me how to do it. Some work real good and others were probably a waste of time. The best one so far is the full house 1/2" pitch chisel chain. There is one that is a scratcher type chain that cuts real smooth but needs a big saw to pull it since all the teeth remain in the wood as it travels through the cut.


Art Martin

 

[Weatherby]

Well I thought id let Art have a good laugh at a poor excuse of a chain. I did all of this free handed with a dremel tool, just playing around this weekend. I think this is the original chain that came on my 372xp from the shop so its a LV chain, and I had to grind the bumper links down as much as I could. I still need to do a little work opening up the gullets, because I wasnt sure how deep to make them or even how much of the tooth to file off. This wasnt an attemp to make a racing chain, but just seeing what kind of work it envovled. It would help if I had a good work bench, and a way to hold the chain steady. Now if I only I would have timed a cut with it before i started messing around with it, to see how much I screwed it up. Too bad I have no idea how to square file. Never to late to start learning.

Rob

 

[Art Martin]

There are many variations for modifying saw chain by ambitious enthusiasts who hope to come across some combination that would prove somewhat better than anyone else’s. Although this is probably good for the sport, most of the people are repeating similar versions that have already been tried and found to be a waste of time. I have some of these chains in my collection. Some are good and others only remind me of the hours I wasted on a brainstorm that I was sure would work. A lot of talk on other posts has been about the files used on chisel chain. I have used many different styles of files such as the triangular, double bevel, etc. I prefer the triangular file for conventional filing of a chisel tooth to get the angles that I try to attain. For me, it is easy to get the correct angles that I look for and this is because of experience. The angles can be changed by a simple twist of the wrist and raising or lowering the handle. The forward stroke should be without any rocking or side motion applied. The inside side plate and the inside top plate should be filed with one continuous stroke from the front toward the back. The teeth must be held stationary without any movement whatsoever. If the tooth is allowed to move, top performance cannot be achieved. Those who sharpen the chains in the woods can get by with it but not on racing chains. When I used to compete, and saw a contestant sharpen his chain while it was on the saw sitting on the tailgate of the pickup, I knew he wasn’t prepared and I discounted him as a serious contender.

For racing chains, I only use Oberg 150 files, which are used by most of the top contestants throughout the country. Recently, Oberg 150 files, made in Portugal, are being sold by Madsen’s or Bailey’s. These files seem to lack quality control because the edges are irregular and not uniform. It is hard to attain a clean, crisp inside top corner with them. The original Oberg 150 files, which were made in Sweden, were much more superior to the current ones on the market. Another file that some racing enthusiasts use is the “goofy” file and a good result can be obtained with them.

I am submitting a picture of my fastest ever chain for small sized logs. It is a custom-made half-inch pitch full house chain.

Art Martin

 

[JimL]

Blew er up a little

 

[husky 2100]

art i cut 12 in gum and have been running 3/8 chain. how would the 1/2 work on a 5 or 6 ci. stock appearing saw compared to the 3/8. do you think it would be lacking for power. thanks mike

 

[Art Martin]

JimL,

Thanks for blowing it up. I tried but it wouldn't accept it.

husky2100,

In my opinion any saw under 7 c.i. would not perform well with the 1/2" chain. A .404" works real good on 6 c.i. and over if you don't make it too hungry and let your saw get out of the power band and if you use a 7 point sprocket. On my 090, I use a 6 point sprocket with the 1/2" chain. I tried the 7 point sprocket many times and lost time. The 3/8" chain has a good track record for all saws and does especially well on saws 6 c.i. and under.

Art Martin

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Art,
What do you think makes the 1/2" pitch work so well?
Thinking out loud here, the larger pitch means fewer teeth in a given length, and the parts are bigger. This increased spacing could be what makes the full house work well on this chain. The taller teeth make a bigger chip channel too.
I was also wondering about other cutter patterns, like a complement of cutters with more cutters than "full complement", but less than "full house".
It also looks like you ground the rear of the cutter off, instead of the front. How or why did you end up doing that?
One last comment on the chain, it doesn't look like you did much grinding on the rivets, tie straps, or drive links. How un-Art like.

I have greatly enjoyed this thread, and I hope you keep it comming!
Mike

 

[Art Martin]

Mike Maas,

The high profile of the 1/2" pitch allows for lower depth gauge settings that can can be used, resulting in larger chips. The space allowed for chip clearance and removal is inherent with this size of chain. The 3/8" pitch chain would be "choked" up by chips of this size if the depth gauges were lowered to .060" as is common on the 1/2" chain. The 3/8 chain is very efficient at .025" depth gauge settings. The top contestants set their depth gauges at .018" to .022" for the 3/8" chain but rely on sprockets that are 9 and 10 toothed. The chips they produce are paper thin but the chain is traveling at such high speeds that the chips are easily carried out resulting in "rooster tails" of twenty-five or more long.
The reason I cut the tooth from the rear to the front on my full house chain, instead of back to over the rear rivet, was because the file would have cut off the depth gauge of the trailing tooth, with the angles I use. Also the trailing depth would have interfered with the chip flow. I put a lot of time in the design before starting on this project which took several weeks to complete and I had to use many costly and hard to get teeth. I also de-chromed all the teeth before dismantling the chain so the width of the kerf would be the same as if the tooth was over the rear rivet. I had enough clearance without grinding the rivets off and I was not worried about reducing the weight on such a short chain and the weight was not a factor since I had already doubled the number of teeth.

Art Martin

 

[Crofter]

Art; I have a question regarding the size, shape and relative pointiness of the tips of the depth guides. Is the shape and area of their tips a factor that should be considered in setting up a chain for optimum performance.

Thanks,

Frank

 

[Art Martin]

Crofter,

On racing chains I reduce the width of the depth gauge to about half the original size by grinding off the front portion. Then I set the height of the depth gauge to the proper depth with a gauge. What you have then is a flat surface. Then with a flat file round off the front upper corner. You need a certain amount of flat surface, otherwise it is easy to bear down on saw the too much while making the cut. This would cause the depth gauge to actually dig into the wood too much and cancel out the purpose of the depth gauge.

Art Martin

 

[Dennis]

Art, while I print pretty much every post you make out...and put them in my filing book, I still suck at square filing...lol...I am looking forward to seeing you in action, in person...when I bring you your coil ...and my chain...

 

[John Lambert]

I'll tell you what I would like to see. Art has an 090 that is unpiped and unheaded. Even though it is not a full race saw, it is still one of the fastest, if not the fastest saws out there on the west coast. I believe that what makes this saw so fast is not the motor, per se, but the belly bar and 1/2" chain that Art always runs with it. Now I'm not saying that the motor is a slouch, mind you, but the fact that there are other saws out there that have to be making more horsepower because of their pipes and heads that can't get close to this thing, says that there has to be a tremendous benefit to Art's bar and chain. I propose that after timed cuts are made with this saw and it blows all of the others out of the water, Art lets the same bar and chain be tried on other hot saws owned by the Roopley brothers and Dozer Dunn.

 

[cliff-1972]

John,I was told by "someone" that this question "Art lets the same bar and chain be tried on other hot saws" has been asked,but was declined.No effense,Art
I do agree it very fast,an I wish my 090 was like it,but Art said long ago it is 50% saw and 50% bar and chain.So,if someone had,if possible,as good as a saw and bar/chain it could be beat,right Again,I think Art is and always will be one of the best sawyers in the world.

 

[Art Martin]

All I can say is if someone is serious about beating my saw and chain: B.Y.O B.

Art Martin