Art Martin: Will the Real Logger Please Stand Up

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There has been so many threads about filing chisel bit chain and about all the different angles, beaks, hooks positive slopes, negative slopes, gullets, rakers, depth gauges, inside side plates, top outside plates, etc. When you add to that all the different opinions, types of wood, plunge cuts, boring cuts, kickbacks, undercuts, Dutchmen, hingewood, etc. it’s no wonder that so many people are confused. Also, there full complement chain, semi-skip chain, full-skip chain, drive links, rakers, etc.
The first important item that is necessary for precise filing is a vise that holds the tooth firmly without any movement. Filing on a chainsaw bar while attached, results in a sloppy result. Even the slightest movement of the tooth causes an inaccurate cutting edge. I know there are people out there who will say, “I’ve been filing my chain in the woods for years and it cuts fine.” I’ve done it that way myself for years, but I just want to point out the most accurate way. If a chain is worn and the bar groove is sloppy, the inaccuracy of the filing job is magnified. If using a round file on a chipper tooth or a chisel tooth, this is not so important, but on a chisel tooth with a chisel file, no movement should occur.
One of the most important steps to do is to get the correct inside side plate angle correct for the particular wood that you are cutting. Those who are using round files are limited as to the degree that can be obtained on the inside side plate that is trailing, ever so slightly though. The larger the hook or overhang, the more tearing action is created because the top plate is pulling out fiber before the fiber is severed by the side plate cutting edge. This results in a rougher cut and slower cutting speed. You can observe this by looking at the end wall of the log because it is fuzzy. If a person, filing with a chisel bit file, doesn’t make the inside side plate angle more acute than what round file has obtained, then they are wasting their time because it won’t cut any faster. With a chisel bit file, and with a lot of practice, the inside side plate and the top plate angles can be made with single strokes to get a much sharper angles. If you don’t make the correct angles, you might as well stay with a round file. The Madsen’s filing instruction certainly doesn’t have the correct angles for a fast cutting woods chain. There is so much misinformation that makes me wonder who wrote the instructions. With angles like those shown, you are wearing out the cut, not cutting it. You are also wearing out your saw. With a chisel file you can attain 30° or less on the inside side plates while keeping a 30° to 32° outside top plate angle and at the same time, getting a thinner inside top plate angle that helps avoid a drastic chips curl as it removes the severed wood fiber. A blunter edge of the top plate angle will cause more energy or horsepower loss. It’s like a wood chisel removing a chip if you have already scored a board with a table saw, then holding the chisel more upright, it’s like scraping the wood out instead of chiseling it out with the handle lower.
The side plate outside angle, when viewing it from the side should have a 10 percent positive hook (80° from upright). A straight up 90° angle to the bar is OK, but the 10° positive slope feeds into the wood better and has a slight slicing guillotine affect on the cross fiber. I make my chain angle as follows: inside side plate 30°, 10° forward slope on the outside side plate, 32° outside top plate, 34° inside top plate, rakers .025” on new chain and I use the progressive method of lowering the rakers as the chain is filed back. The optimum cutting angle is reduced as the chain is filed back resulting in a smaller chip. To maintain the original new chain cutting efficiency when the tooth reaches the rear rivet, the depth of the raker should be .038”. This allows the cutting edge to enter the wood at the correct optimum angle. Depth gauges should be lowered every time the chain is filed, but this is rarely done. When the “constant” method is used, the gauge reads .025” but as the chain is filed back, the chain becomes less efficient because the optimum cutting angle is reduced. With the progressive method, the optimum raker height is factored in and the chip size remains constant. This progressive method is easily accomplished with a file-o-plate. Even if you have an adjustable depth gauge, the exact amount the rakers should be lowered is hard to determine. A lot of experience helps. Any chain that is filed back, using either the constant or progressive method of lowering the rakers, will cause kickback energy to increase slightly.
I have used skip chain and semi-ski chain during my career as a timber faller and found them to be an advantage when used in the falling process in big timber. As for bucking the full compliment chain is much smoother and faster.
If a beak is created, the top plate acts like a tooth filed with a round file that has been undercut too far. The top plate digs under the uncut fiber and actually lifts and tears out the fiber before side plate has cut it. You should practice to hit the corner exactly at the intersection, to prevent this from happening.
I welcome any questions that might arise about the clarity of chisel bit chain filing or any other questions that you might arise on this topic that I haven’t covered.. I will cover racing chains later in another post.

Art Martin
 
just a comment to darin.
this post has so much history and so much good info . it be nice if it was made a part of the site that was a permanent
thing new forum members coluld click on.
i know im gonna print it. so ill be busy a while. not meaning to get in ye buisiness
darin.:)
 
Thanks alot for your great insight on this subject Art I greatly appreciate you sharing all your tips as well as all the great stories you have,hope to hear some more from the Art archives soon.

Thanks Rob.
 
Thank you ART !

Thank you very much ART.

So what type of chain do you start off with when you begin to square file?

On a 404 chain do you start with a chian that is alreasdy machine square filed or use one that is round filed and proceed to Square filing?

What size files do you use?
 
Don,
Since I no longer work in the woods, I just do racing chains and don't use chisel bit files. When I did use chisel bit files, I prefered the three cornered type on 1/2", .404, and 3/8" chains. to remove the metal from the gullets, a 5/32" round file works fine.

Art Martin
 
Thank you Art

I appreciate all the information. There sure is allot to a chain. Never really tought so hard on how to do a good file job until I read how you worked in the mountains and the way you sharpen chains today.
 
Before I forget, there are several points that should be mentioned concerning conventional chainsaw sharpening. There are probably many people out there who don’t understand the important relationship of the chain to the sprocket. The sprocket should be changed every time the operator puts on a new chain. Also the bar rails should be trued properly as well. As the chain wears and stretches, the pitch changes slightly. As the sprocket wears, the pitch also changes. The distance between the points on the sprocket gets smaller. So the two components work in opposite directions. When the sprocket wears down, the bottom of the drive links “bottom out”. The continuous hammering on the bottom of the sprocket causes the front part of the drive link to turn up to form a sled runner. This prevents the raking action to keep the bar groove clear of the debris and chips that start to form at the bottom of the bar groove. If the wood is pitchy and sticky, since the drive links can’t clear it out because of the sled runners that have been formed, it begins to build up and actually gets tamped down and solidifies. The result is the chain tension gets tighter as it rides over the packed down debris. The engine heats up and the bar and chain get hot also. The problem can be easily corrected with a round file or Dremel tool.
I’ve seen this happen even to the high horse power motorcycle engines where the chain actually stops.

Art Martin
 
Great thread, and thanks.

A question: "new sprockets every new chain", makes plenty of sense if the sawyer is the sort that keeps one chain on the saw until it's pretty well shot...usually that guy is able to file freehand pretty well too.

I am not able to file freehand all that well, and will not even try to fix up a damaged chain out in the woods. It's just easier to replace it, and I usually have 2 or 3 chains in rotation on all of my saws at any one time. I change spur sprockets when I can see a pretty good groove forming (maybe .020 deep), and change rims when it looks like the links are starting to bang, or when I feel like "it's been long enough". I do not abandon good chains when changing sprockets. In fact, I keep using chains as long as the drivers, tie-links, and teeth look OK.

I've been getting by Ok until now, but this doesn't seem to fit your suggestions. Any Comment?
 
eyolf,
You certainly have the situation under control from what you described. Also, like I said, that problem can be easily solved if sled runners start to appear, then you can keep on running the chain much longer. All that I was trying to point out is what could happen when people go to extremes and continue to run chain after chain on the same sprocket. People bring saws in for me to sharpen and the sprockets have a groove on the points the are .060" and probably even more. Also the bar grooves are wide enough to roll a quarter down them. The drive links are so worn that they are tapered toward the bottom like a wedge. Then they wonder why their cuts are crooked. People tend to be conservative when it comes to sprockets and bars because they are so expensive, and as long as the chain keeps going around, why bother.

Art Martin
 
Hi Art, I know exactly what you are saying about the saw attachments and the abuse they get.
Even those that should know better, give you the dumb dog look when you suggest things like dressing the bar, changing the sprocket or simply learning to file. Then they go on to brag about how great a Stihl or Husky is and how well they cut tobaggans.
An equally funny look can be gotten if you suggest they open up the muffler or simply turn the H screw in a bit so it doesnt smoke like a Mack truck.
I guess what I am trying to say is, we can spoon feed the basics all day long, but few will grasp it, but then again, if they did, we may not have feller bunchers or whole tree processors.
John
 
Art,

Excellent info about the sprocket-chain combo I don't know why people don't change them more often they don't cost a fortune.I find myself going through a sprocket every other week sometimes even sooner depending on how much felling I'm doing.I invested in 20 sprockets for each of my saws but when they run out I order another 20..

Gypo,

Your right about the spoon feeding basics to everyone,and also the buncher and processor but personally I "need" my buncher since I do work alone and I subcontrat for a bigger company that requires the job done on a certain date,like when they give me 2 weeks to selective/thin out a 20-30 acre tract of 14"dbh-30"dbh I just can't do it just with my saws I use my buncher for 14"-22" trees and the rest I fell with my saws,I would really like to just fell it all with my saws but time does'nt allow me to do that.

thanks for listening
Later Rob..
 
John, Paul Bunion and Babe know how you feel........... %&#@ mechanical logging. Hey, Art any thoughts about Mechanized logging? Jon
 
The history you have shared is amazing. After seeing thoes pictures, I feel dwarfed especially since my biggest tree was a 6' ponderosa pine, I thought it was a monster. Thanks for sharing this amazing tale with us!-Matt
 
:eek: WOW, Art I am realy glad that I got in this forum and learned the information you have shared in this thread. I couldn't believe my eyes in some of those pictures that were shared by Gypo and Doug, truly amazing I do not know how you ever did it. It makes some of the trees I have felled (and thought they were monsters) seem like weeding a garden. Thank you for all of the valuable and interesting info. Just one question, you have truely a great wealth of knowledge and experience on saws, and I always find this question interesting, which brand of saw do you prefer, Stihl or Husky? And Why? I am always interested in hearing peoples responses on this question.
Thank you :D
Andy
 
Matt,
Sharing some of my past history on this site is just a very small portion of the total picture. Life during my early childhood as well as the years growing up wasn't easy and sometimes even cruel and at times seemed hopeless. We did survive and learned to introduce humor when things really got bad. I have so many true stories that are humorous and amusing that would fill a book, but that again is another story.

Art Martin
 
Andy,
Thanks for your question as to my preference on chainsaws. I like the Stihl but I just don't have the background or knowledge to really evaluate other current saws or models. Let me put it this way, I own one Stihl 090, three Stihl 056's, one Poulan 655 BP, one Solo 680, one West Bend. I really like the 056 since that is the saw I have used the most.

Art Martin
 
Ryan,

The saw the I was referring to, that I like, is the 056 A.V. It is 4.94 cu. in. (81 c.c.). There are many improved 056 models also going over the 5 cu. in. range, to around 6 cu. in., and according to sales on Ebay, they hold their value to over $300.

Art Martin
 

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