Art Martin: Will the Real Logger Please Stand Up

[don]

Edge is honed with a razor stone?

What is a razor stone?
I always thought the chro9me creates/keeps the edge on a chain.
I guess for a racing chain you use it a couple of times for several seconds and you are off to the next race some where. Then you would rework the chain.
Is this the rationale?

 

[Art Martin]

Don,

A razor stone is available at most barber supply stores. It is a glass smooth rectangular stone about 6" long, 3" wide and 3/6" thick. I used the same chain for a whole season and sometimes more. Just a slight stoning once in a while keeps the fiber cutting edge razor sharp. The top plate doesn't need a touch up. You can gain about two or more seconds on a 24" inch cut by merely stoning it if done correctly. If not done correctly it will stop cutting after it gets about 4 to 5 inches into the cut. I will cover that subject later.

Art Martin

 

[bwalker]

Art, Sounds like it is very labour intensive process to make a good race chain. About how long do you put into each one?

 

[Art Martin]

bwalker,

It isn't easy. It takes me 10 hours for a race chain for a 20" bar. I have actually timed each phase and then I can multiply by the number of teeth in a particular chain to determine how long it takes. I seemed to have heard that some fellow in Montana can do it in less than an hour. I guess you have to work faster in that cold country to keep warm.

Art Martin

 

[bwalker]

Montana can do it in less than an hour.

LOL, To bad walt was such a sore loser. They guy had alot to say from some of his posts I have read.

 

[eyolf]

Thanks, Mr Martin (you seem like one of those guys that deserves a respectful greeting?).

I know only a little about filing chains, and it seems like less since reading your posts. I do know a little about filing circle saw blades, and can recite the terms "set", "rake" and "clearance", can show where the "gullet" is, and even know the purpose of raker teeth on diferent types of saw blades. I can even file a hand rip saw and have gummed a buzz saw blade...which is getting uncommon!

But that's all a piece of cake compared to figuring out how to file a chain, at least for me. I still rely on a Granberg file jig to sharpen chains, or at least to get them back to really decent shape after two or three woods filings (or one kiss of the dirt!)

I just wanted to say thanks for taking some time to talk about this subject. I don't understand everything said; it's pretty hard to describe some things without a drawing or photo, but it appears that a little thought and a little time spent over a saw chain may fill in some gaps. One of your past posts alluded to the depth guages controlling depth of cut AND amount of tipping the cutter into the cut, where this lead would change as the cutter was filed back. I actually went out and made some cuts with a couple of different chain saws, and measured the thickness of chips produced to see if I could see some differences and make some conclusions.

I can imagine an impish grin and a twinkle in your eye as you mention a certain Montanan. I think its too bad that Walt isn't posting here any more. I'm going to hazard a guess that he knew quite well how to accurately file or grind a chain, but his chains stopped short of some other touches you're mentioning lately, probably just the difference between a pretty good chain and the one that takes the trophies regularly.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Tell me if I got the side plate modification correct in this drawing.

Are my thoughts on "set" close to what the actual set angle is?

 

[Crofter]

Art, we are hanging on your every word, I keep checking for the next installment. On the reduction of set, do you take off more at the front of the tooth or reduce taper from top to bottom as Mike shows in his drawing, or both?

Frank

 

[Art Martin]

Mike Maas,

Great drawing, but it’s wrong. You are looking at the six-degree reduction from a wrong angle. Although what you show in your drawing is somewhat correct as to the lean of the tooth, it is not an indication of “set”. You have to draw another illustration showing the tooth as if you are above it, looking down. Then you make a six-degree line from the rear of the top plate to the front. Then the forward cutting corner will stick out six degrees more than the heel of the top plate. This is the “set” that I am referring to.

Art Martin

 

[Art Martin]

Crofter,

The explaination to Mike Maas using the word "set" is easier to grasp than "lead" (as in leading edge) which would be a more correct terminology. When putting set into crosscut saws and other saws, "set" means the outward lean of the tooth. With a hooded chainsaw tooth, it has both lead and set. I hope this explanation helps.

Art Martin

 

[don]

I can only write ...

You could sell the manual all day for $20.
Manual with video for $49.
May I be the first one to purchase the manual and tape?

What amazes me the most is you learned most of this by trial and error.

Okay guys who in a survey would say they manipulated the "set" on a tooth to see which angle cut the best?

Filing with a razor stone will be an interesting subject.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

What tool can be used to measure all these angles?

 

[Art Martin]

Mike Maas,

This angle is hard to measure because it has so many variables. I’ll try to explain how I came to the angle that I use.
The vise that holds the chain, that I made, sits on a rotating base and is adjustable to any angle. The stationary electric motor is mounted on a permanent angle that makes the “lean” of the tooth that you depicted in your drawing. I put a one-foot long planer blade into the moveable vise and moved it so it was flat against the grinding wheel. This made a zero reading on the line I scribed across the two parts of the adjustable base. Then at the end of the one-foot long planer blade, I moved the end six degrees. This made the line on the rotating base move ever so slightly so I scribed another line there. Then I moved the rotating base back to zero and the moved the end of the planer blade in the opposite direction. This resulted in two witness marks on the base that were easy to reproduce each time I de-chromed a new chain. So the six degrees that I refer to, were at the one-foot mark. I wouldn’t know how to measure each tooth individually. All this grinder set-up does is reduces the side “lead” and maintains enough “lead” to clear the rear portion of the tooth as the cut is made, which results in a cut that is much smoother. The amount of “lead” on each tooth is only in the thousandths but it works. This explanation might sound complicated, but it is more common sense than technical

Art Martin

 

[Crofter]

Mr. Martin;
I sure would appreciate knowing how you position the saw or the clamped chain when you square file. I have experimented with level, nose up 45', tipped towards me 45' etc. trying to find a way to be able to watch the corner and keep track of the other angles. I am having the most trouble with keeping the side hook consistant. It cuts not too bad by MY standards but is not very crisp looking. Did you square file your working chains when you were logging or is this mostly reserved for competition work,

Frank

 

[Art Martin]

Crofter,

I will get to the subject of filing the chain later, and I will post pictures of the filing vise the I made and also a picture of another way to stabilize the chain when filing a chisel tooth chain. It can be made very easily with a discarded bar and clamp.
I only used full compliment, chisel tooth chain, when it came available, during my first career, except for a times that I wanted to experiment with the full-skip and the semi-skip chains since there was no information available at that time for comparison. My conclusion was in big timber, the skip chain did help bring out the sawdust somewhat better, but it was too rough when cutting with the end of the bar. Cutting with seven or eight foot bar in trees that are twelve feet and more in diameter, becomes a daily task and the kick-back is unbelivable.

Art Martin

 

[Art Martin]

Continuing on the subject of racing chains, the cutter modification procedure is of course the main concern. To enhance the chip flow requires the enlarging and smoothing of the chip channel underneath the cutter top plate and the inside wall of the side plate. This can be accomplished by removing some of the metal with a Dremel tool and a thin abrasive wheel. Care must be taken not to weaken the cutter too much. I find that the best position to accomplish the removal of this metal is to have the chain on its side. I use a small vise held by my large bench vise to hold the tooth rigid, then I move each tooth, one by one, on that particular side into position. Then I turn the chain over and do the teeth on that side. It’s a slow process but it has its rewards.
Although I hardly ever use the other method to increase chip flow channel, some people have good results with it, especially in the eastern states where they cut 8”X 8” and 10”X 10” cants with 10 point sprockets, short bars and powerful engines. It doesn‘t work well on the pacific coast areas where the logs are big. They remove the rear portion of the tooth and since the tooth slopes to the rear, removing the material from the rear portion of the tooth does indeed enlarge the chip channel. Since I don’t remove the rear portion of the tooth and concentrate on the tooth above the rear rivet, I already have a narrower kerf without removing the chrome. Then when I remove the chrome and alter the “lead”, I have an advantage. About .020”of the inside of the tooth can be removed without weakening the tooth. If you go above this amount it can be risky although at times I have taken a chance and it worked out fine. My motto during my years as a contestant was always “thin to win”.
When the inside top plate is thinned and sharpened at a steep angle, the chip doesn’t curl abruptly as it does with a blunter angle, therefore there is less resistance in that area. Another reason that a thicker and blunter top edge is not as efficient is that the resistance imposed on the top edge has a tendency to push the cutter toward the outside wall of the kerf causing gouges or scratches on the walls of the cut. This roughness can often be observed when the cut drops off. The bottom line is a thinner top plate and inside top plate angle is the way to go. This is also the reason why a chisel tooth chain, sharpened with a chisel file is superior to a chisel tooth chain filed with a round file in just average wood -cutting and in the woods.

Art Martin

 

[dbabcock]

Be careful, Art. You keep posting razer-sharp pictures of your tools on here and Dozerdan will be making "Art Martin" racing chains by New Years.

 

[Art Martin]

Doug,

I didn't think there was anyone crazy enough to subject themselves to hours of misery just to win trophies, but you never know.
Dozer Dan missed the boat since I made him a piece of racing chain for an item he as to give me in trade, but he didn't respond. Maybe I can sell it on Ebay.

Art Martin

 

[kdhotsaw2]

Very interesting art.
kdhotsaw

 

[dbabcock]

Art,
Who says one has to spend hours on a world class chain. Walt's chains only took an hour and a half and they were the fastest chains on the planet.