Ashley Stoves -- Danger!!

[slowp]

Holy Cow these unelected ABC regulatory agencies are making a goat screw of everything.

Can you fab that missing part?

That's an inaccurate blanket statement. Many people have EPA certified stoves that operate just fine. I like not having to clean the chimney during burning season. One needs to shop for a good stove.

Another, EPA horror thread. Meanwhile, mine is heating the house just fine, but it isn't that brand.

 

[Chris-PA]

Holy Cow these unelected ABC regulatory agencies are making a goat screw of everything.

Can you fab that missing part?

OK, this is an old stove design that did not meet the emissions requirements. The manufacturer decided to exploit a loophole by leaving big holes in the door and calling it a "fireplace". They completely ripped off the OP, taking his money for something that could not work and was probably dangerous - and this gets blamed on the agency that enforces the emissions limits and not the company that sold him the junk. There is a (il)logic here that escapes me.

 

[Whitespider]

Logic?? That ain't difficult to see.
Without the unlawful, unconstitutional, one-size-fits-all, Federal regulations the manufacturer wouldn't have need to "exploit" a loophole.
This is exactly why Federal Government ain't given the authority to "regulate" such things as wood stoves... it's specifically left to the States and/or the people (local governments).
Federal "regulation" always results in the same thing... first government spends the peoples money to make and enforce "regulations"... which breeds corruption, in both government and private sector... which breeds even more "regulation"... which breeds more corruption... which breeds more "regulation... the cycle continues until companies finally go broke, and then Government bails them-out with more of the peoples money... just to add more "regulation"... which breeds...
In the end, there are no winners (other than through corruption) when it comes to Federal "regulation", only losers... with the biggest losers being the people, simply because they have the most to lose.

Logic?? That ain't difficult to see... plenty of good men saw the logic 227 years ago.
*

 

[Chris-PA]

Yeah, yeah, I've seen that movie before. So the actions of the corporation are OK then? It's not their fault I guess. LOL, so much for the culture of personal responsibility.

 

[Whitespider]

Well... Chris-PA, once again you twist things in an attempt to put words in my mouth.
No matter how many times I read what I posted... I am unable to find where I posted any "action" was "OK", or where I absolved any "fault".
I simply addressed your "logic" statement... nothing more than that.
If you read more into it... well... the problem is at your end... certainly not mine.

If you'd like to discuss "personal responsibility" I'm more than willing to go there also.
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[Chris-PA]

Bullcrap. You responded to my comment about logic. My statement was directly about the logic of blaming the government agency while NOT placing any blame on the corporation that knowingly made and sold the defective product in an obviously unethical (in multiple ways) attempt to get around the regulations.

You responded by going off on the constitutionality of regulation and never once mentioning the actions of the corporation, and stated that this logic was not difficult to see. This was a direct endorsement of the viewpoint I found illogical. You can now try to pretend that my "logic" comment was about something else, but it was not - it was about blaming the regulatory body while withholding any condemnation of the corporation. Just as you did.

 

[Whitespider]

Bullcrap right back at'cha.
What I posted was exactly what I posted... no reading between the lines required.
If my intent was to absolve any blame or fault attached the manufacturer I would have clearly stated it.
You, on the other hand, are not willing to see that there is also fault in the system creating the corruption... and refuse to lay the deserved portion of blame and fault on it.
Why must there be a hidden agenda in anything I say when it disagrees with your ideology??
Stop looking for it... I say what I mean, and I mean what I say... nothing more.

By-the-way, if you go back and read it again, I clearly stated there is private sector corruption involved.

addendum; Oh... as to the logic... placing blame on the root cause of something is not "illogical"... and no matter how you twist it the root is the "regulations". As I posted, without those unconstitutional regulations, there wouldn't be a "loophole" to find... would there?? The root cause, in this case, is simply the regulations... the sidestepping of constitution by Federal Government. That in no way justifies bad behavior by the manufacturer... but it does make bad behavior more likely.
*

 

[ray benson]

The OP Hal S started the thread 2 1/2 years ago and that was his only post. Did he even try the stove?

 

[Chris-PA]

Bullcrap right back at'cha.
What I posted was exactly what I posted... no reading between the lines required.
If my intent was to absolve any blame or fault attached the manufacturer I would have clearly stated it.
You, on the other hand, are not willing to see that there is also fault in the system creating the corruption... and refuse to lay the deserved portion of blame and fault on it.
Why must there be a hidden agenda in anything I say when it disagrees with your ideology??
Stop looking for it... I say what I mean, and I mean what I say... nothing more.

By-the-way, if you go back and read it again, I clearly stated there is private sector corruption involved.

addendum; Oh... as to the logic... placing blame on the root cause of something is not "illogical"... and no matter how you twist it the root is the "regulations". As I posted, without those unconstitutional regulations, there wouldn't be a "loophole" to find... would there?? The root cause, in this case, is simply the regulations... the sidestepping of constitution by Federal Government. But that in no way justifies bad behavior by the manufacturer... but it does make it more likely.
*

You do not actually know what my "ideology" is, nor if I have one. I have stated before that I am ambivalent on the EPA and that they have done both worthwhile and very stupid things. Nor do I support large centralized bureaucracies in general, and I see them as unsustainable anyway. I do not however share your narrow view of the legitimacy of their existence, nor that they somehow represent a pure evil. They are just a typical bureaucracy.

Placing the "root cause" of the unscrupulous and unethical actions of individuals working for a corporation on the EPA for making what you believe to be illegitamate regulations is giving them a pass on personal responsibility. They chose to sell that stove that way, they were not forced to, and that is not anyone else's fault.

 

[reaperman]

Why just not return the stove for a refund. You did purchase it with a credit card didnt you?

 

[Whitespider]

FYI Chris-PA... personal responsibility is an entirely different thing from corporate responsibility... and your confusion of the two gives strong evidence as to your ideology.
Personal responsibility is nothing more than being responsible for yourself... allowing yourself to be ripped-off by a corporation (i.e. not being "buyer beware") is a lack of personal responsibility. And further, expecting government to protect you from being ripped-off by a corporation, or expecting government to fix it when you are ripped-off is a gross lack of personal responsibility.

As far as belief...
I've read the Constitution... my "beliefs" do not change what it says, nor do they matter.
*

 

[Chris-PA]

.. allowing yourself to be ripped-off by a corporation (i.e. not being "buyer beware") is a lack of personal responsibility. And further, expecting government to protect you from being ripped-off by a corporation, or expecting government to fix it when you are ripped-off is a gross lack of personal responsibility.

Please find anywhere that I expressed such expectations? You know of course that I did not discuss who should provide protection or recourse at all.

Clearly in your view the corporation that sold the OP the defective product has done nothing wrong, it is the OP's responsibility that he allowed himself to be ripped off, and the EPA's fault that the corporation did so. Thank you for confirming my previous comments on logic and responsibility - I do not see any reason for further comment here.

 

[Whitespider]

Once again you're twisting it in an attempt to put words in my mouth Chris-PA... another thing giving strong evidence as to your ideology.
There ain't any reason to read between the lines of my posts... I simply post what I mean, and mean what I post... nothing more than that.
*

 

[Dalmatian90]

The manufacturers, except mom and pop welding shops, all prefer the proper placement of this on the Federal level with the EPA to make uniform standards for products sold on a national basis. And that product might just be the plans, as was the model in the Fisher stove days when they sold rights to local shops in each state to make their design. Interstate commerce it's called, and even if you only had 5 or 10 or 12 states adopt their own emission standards and test procedures it would be an undue burden on the manufacturers trying to sell into all those markets having to repeat the tests to prove they match each independent standard. These are largely $500-2000 consumer items that don't lend themselves to having state-by-state standards.

And most states are just as happy not trying to re-invent the world and create their own standards for stoves only sold within the state of origin. Those states are perfectly capable of further localizing the regulations by whether or not they accept "fireplace" type stoves, or OWBs, or restrict even EPA stoves in areas and times prone to pollution.

 

[autoimage]

I read the first post and knew it would be a problem

 

[Big_Al]

Sheesh, thread was 3 years old folks.

 

[CTYank]

Somebody please bust up the soap-boxes for kindling. And cancel the mind-reading act. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

get me some 7018 and a oven and i can cover those holes right over.

 

[chuckwood]

get me some 7018 and a oven and i can cover those holes right over.

That ash pan door might be small enough to fit in a toaster oven - so get one real cheap at a thrift store, wrap the oven up in fiberglass insulation, and heat that sucker up as hot as you can get it. Take it out with a pair of tongs, and quickly weld a piece of plate on over all those holes using 7018. Then let it cool down real slow in a bucket of ashes. Next day you can light the fire.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

or a bucket or play sand. not sure about welding up a stove door, but i have been successful welding up cracked exhaust manifolds on tractors.