aviation gas in chainsaw ok???

[blsnelling]

I just finished my first five gallons of VP 110 and on the last gallon mix I only had enough to mix 50% ethonal free 87 octance with 50% vp 110.

I though the saws ran better with it blended like that. So that is my story and I am sticking with it.

I have seen it somehwere that is you run to high of actane it can actually hurt performance and run the saw hotter.

If it is on the internet it has to be true

Race fuel and pump gasoline are made of different chemical components. It's not just mixing 110 octane and 87 octane gasoline together. I wonder if there are any negative side effects to mixing the different kinds of fuels?

If anything, I would expect pump gasoline to run hotter than race fuel. The race fuel burns slower.

 

[Banacanin]

Hey bud, if I run diesel, what ratio should I mix it at? What brand of mix?

the mix isn't as important as the diesel, try something in a number six fuel oil (bunker c), it should be self lubricating

 

[Hillbilly1]

To add to what Brad suggested -

I would too, since using these different fuels the saws are not designed for is far more likely to result in non-ideal stoichiometric conditions (carb tunes that are off), and the hottest burn of the fuel will be having the perfect air/fuel ratio. Stock saws. Since the saws are designed for pump gas 89 octane they will likely achieve the maximum thermal efficiency at that point, the hotter without mechanical damage or detonation the better. Well, I don't know "for sure" with the saws but damn sure automotive engines are designed that way. It's just fundamentals of internal combustion engines. 160deg t-stats, 170, 180, 195, 210 - the temperatures keep creeping up. Why? Max efficiency.

Further, burn rate itself is not always reliably indicated by the octane rating I don't believe - from octane rating the only thing one should infer is the fuel's resistance to detonation. Nothing more. There's a lot of other factors going on there depending on how and what is blended.

 

[struggle]

I talked to the guys at the fuel place and both suggested that many other blend the fuel as well to lower over all octance rating.

I am not saying it is right or wrong as it would be beyond me in the mecular build up of the different fuel packages and as to wether or not this could cause more problems. (spell check not working?)

 

[CTYank]

To add to what Brad suggested -

I would too, since using these different fuels the saws are not designed for is far more likely to result in non-ideal stoichiometric conditions (carb tunes that are off), and the hottest burn of the fuel will be having the perfect air/fuel ratio. Stock saws. Since the saws are designed for pump gas 89 octane they will likely achieve the maximum thermal efficiency at that point, the hotter without mechanical damage or detonation the better. Well, I don't know "for sure" with the saws but damn sure automotive engines are designed that way. It's just fundamentals of internal combustion engines. 160deg t-stats, 170, 180, 195, 210 - the temperatures keep creeping up. Why? Max efficiency.

Further, burn rate itself is not always reliably indicated by the octane rating I don't believe - from octane rating the only thing one should infer is the fuel's resistance to detonation. Nothing more. There's a lot of other factors going on there depending on how and what is blended.

FWIW, 160 deg T-stats were to keep methanol-based anti-freeze from boiling off. The trend toward 210 deg was driven by emissions requirements- better fuel vaporization.

Compression ratios typical of road-legal engines and typical pump gas result in much more heat dissipation than with racing engines run on high-octane fuels. For a given power output. Mechanical efficiency-related.

 

[komatsuvarna]

Ive ran 10% Ethanol fuel for 3+ years and never had a failur from it. Between chainsaws and cut off saws, I probably average 2 gallons a week, sometimes a little more. Just dont let it set in the saw for a long time and it will be fine.

 

[MacLaren]

Ive ran 10% Ethanol fuel for 3+ years and never had a failur from it. Between chainsaws and cut off saws, I probably average 2 gallons a week, sometimes a little more. Just dont let it set in the saw for a long time and it will be fine.

So, you really dont even have to add stabil? Just as long as you use the gas within a reasonable time?

 

[mdavlee]

I've never run any AV gas but I have ran a tank of the Vp gas that paul had. I usually run 93 non ethanol when I can. If not I'll mix 1 gallon at a time of 93 with ethanol and dump it if it's not used within 2 weeks now.

 

[nmurph]

So, you really dont even have to add stabil? Just as long as you use the gas within a reasonable time?

I use Stihl Ultra oil. It has a stabilizer blended from the factory. I don't hesitate to use mix that is a couple of months old.

 

[Hillbilly1]

FWIW, 160 deg T-stats were to keep methanol-based anti-freeze from boiling off. The trend toward 210 deg was driven by emissions requirements- better fuel vaporization.

Compression ratios typical of road-legal engines and typical pump gas result in much more heat dissipation than with racing engines run on high-octane fuels. For a given power output. Mechanical efficiency-related.

The hotter you can keep an engine running within the limits modern metallurgy and lubes allow, the greater the efficiency and fuel economy, which is of course inseperable from emissions (particularly for those that consider CO2 an emission - topic for another discussion, much the same as those thinking ethanol is a great idea....). Raising the fuel economy is the biggest knob to turn toward lowering tailpipe emissions, by default. Better fuel vaporization would be a minor factor in the improvement, if any. Atomization and combustion turbulence is the name of that game ergo the higher pressure and direct injection systems.

Old managers shuttered the doors on boiler houses and kept ambient temperatures at 165F (even in the one I work in, back in the day), smothering all the workers for one reason - saving every last hunk of coal they could. Same goes for engines. Now we just get to 145F in the summer!

Aluminum heads - there's your heat dissipation. Enabling higher CR's and all that jazz as you stated.

 

[Hillbilly1]

Damn, sorry guys me and CTYank went way off the reservation.

Back to the topic at hand, run 93 octane with or without ethanol, store in cool and dry place out of sunlight in reasonably tight containers, use fuel stabilizer and or quality oil with it in it already, use up and repeat within a few months. Idle engines dry before storage, not after a long hard bucking cut or something like that, of course.

Ethanol although sucking most majorly, is not the bane of our existence it has been made out to be in all the over the counter saw shop discussions.

 

[komatsuvarna]

So, you really dont even have to add stabil? Just as long as you use the gas within a reasonable time?

nope. I run ultra and 93 shell V-power. I left it in my weed wacker all winter and it started up and ran fine in the spring.......but i try not to let it set in there that long if i remember it.

 

[MacLaren]

nope. I run ultra and 93 shell V-power. I left it in my weed wacker all winter and it started up and ran fine in the spring.......but i try not to let it set in there that long if i remember it.

Good deal.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

You cats that freak out over 10% ethanol make me LOL

Also cats that run Av-gas, VP, and other stuff in a chainsaw make me LOL...

89 to 92 octane (even with 10% ethanol) will be just fine for your OPE. Just don't let it set for months on end in your equipment...

Meh... :msp_razz:

Gary

Yep.....I will admit it.....I overworry the issue and go out of my way to avoid ethanol fuel. When I have used E10 and been conistent about keeping the fuel fresh I have never had any problems. The problem is that I have 25 acres to maintain by myself and a lot of equipment to help me out. I have 3 chainsaws, a log splitter, a Yardman push mower, a Kawasaki weedwacker with a brush blade, a Stihl weedwacker with a string head, a Toro snow blower, a Billy Goat mower for long grass, a DR walk behind brush mower, a Kees slicer for seeding the lawn, an engine driven lawn aerator, a Swisher 60" pull behind finish mower, an Exmark 52" walk behind mower, a Poulan leaf blower, a Mantis Tiller, a Generac generator, and a neighbor just gave me a Kawasaki gasoline hedge trimmer. It is hard to keep up with the maintenance of all this equipment - so using good fuel helps considerably to avoid any problems. I am able to buy 90 octane ethanol free fuel in a 55 gallon drum and I add Sta-bil and that much fuel lasts me about a year and stays fresh.

So far this year the only thing I have had to do to my equipment is run the fuel out of my snowblower and replace the fuel lines on my 12 year old Kawasaki trimmer. I have repaired 2 lawnmowers with dissolved diapragms, replaced the fuel lines on 1 leaf blower, replaced the diaphrams in 1 string trimmer, cleaned the carb on a tiller all for neighbors that used ethanol fuel and don't keep it fresh.

I keep about 1/2 gallon of 100LL Avgas in my generator fuel tank at all times so that I know it will start when I need it (I turn off the fuel and run the carb dry when I put it way - and when I am using the generator I will use ethanol fuel from the pump as I am using the fuel immediately). In all my other equipment I run ethanol free fuel with Sta-bil. I do scheduled maintenance on my equipment and occasionally they need something fixed - but I have never had any fuel related failures. The extra effort of getting good fuel seems to help me and gives me piece of mind - as I have seen what the ethanol fuel does to equipment that I fix for other people.

 

[GASoline71]

I use Stihl Ultra oil. It has a stabilizer blended from the factory. I don't hesitate to use mix that is a couple of months old.

Yup... same here.

Gary

 

[CTYank]

Damn, sorry guys me and CTYank went way off the reservation.

Back to the topic at hand, run 93 octane with or without ethanol, store in cool and dry place out of sunlight in reasonably tight containers, use fuel stabilizer and or quality oil with it in it already, use up and repeat within a few months. Idle engines dry before storage, not after a long hard bucking cut or something like that, of course.

Ethanol although sucking most majorly, is not the bane of our existence it has been made out to be in all the over the counter saw shop discussions.

"off the reservation"? Maybe you're thinking of Sarah? I don't go rogue.

All seriousness aside, I was simply trying to address some pretty obvious misconceptions in previous posts, one of which related to fuel octane rating.

 

[Hillbilly1]

"off the reservation"? Maybe you're thinking of Sarah? I don't go rogue.

All seriousness aside, I was simply trying to address some pretty obvious misconceptions in previous posts, one of which related to fuel octane rating.

I was more referring to myself. I burned down the teepee and ran over the hill, fell off the cliff, long ago. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Burke Howard]

can i run 100LL (low lead) aviation fuel in my chainsaw without problems? The stihl dealer here sells vp racing fuel for ten dollars a gallon he said it is 94 octane i can get the aviation fuel for six a gallon. i am thinking both have to be better than the ethenol mixed fuel from the gas station thanks

I have have always ran 91 octane no e in my saws with no problem! Recently I got a 55 gallon barrel full of avegas for free from mechanic at airport! Fuel drained from a plane can't be put back in the plane so he hooked it up and I started using it in my saws and generators with no problem at all to be honest I think my saws not only run better sound better but have the edge in power as well! I can tell a difference and will take every barrel of avegas or mogas they will give me! I would definitely recommend it but I say at your risk! But I don't see a problem in using it as long as you use it in engin that doesn't have a catalytic converter! Lead will plug it up restricting flow

 

[Mad Professor]

I have have always ran 91 octane no e in my saws with no problem! Recently I got a 55 gallon barrel full of avegas for free from mechanic at airport! Fuel drained from a plane can't be put back in the plane so he hooked it up and I started using it in my saws and generators with no problem at all to be honest I think my saws not only run better sound better but have the edge in power as well! I can tell a difference and will take every barrel of avegas or mogas they will give me! I would definitely recommend it but I say at your risk! But I don't see a problem in using it as long as you use it in engin that doesn't have a catalytic converter! Lead will plug it up restricting flow

ONLY, downside is lead.

I grew up with lead, but unlike inner city cimps, did not use the paint chips for dip on foods........

 

[Seachaser]

I wish they would archive these old threads.