Backing Up TLH????????????

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur


Mike thanks for the link but all those knots look like so much spaghetti to me; I get indigestion just looking at them. :blob6:

 

[SilverBlue]

Hey Butch, doesya use a fisherman's knot at all?

 

[MasterBlaster]

To connect two ropes? I use a bowline.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

MB,

To connect two ropes? I use a bowline.

To tie two ropes together end to end?

Do you use two interlocking bowlines or do you use two seperate ropes to tie them in the form of a bowline? If so, you've got a sheet bend. That is not a good choice for tieing ropes together. If you don't believe me, google sheetbend and study the knot.

http://www.google.com/search?num=10...F-8&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=sheet+bend&spell=1

The Zepplin, not Led, the real Graf Zep, bend is a favorite for tieing ropes together. There are a lot more too.

Tom

 

[MasterBlaster]

So your saying a locked-off bowline is completely wrong?

The scenerio I'm talking about is when you run out of bullrope, or even simply tieing a rope to a climber's line.

 

[Lumberjack]

Tying a bowline using the ends of 2 ropes by making a bight with a loop goin around it is a sheetbend. The knot isn't very stable and it isnt recommended for tying to ropes together when they are loaded. If you tie 2 bowlines with their loops together, that is marginaly better, but is mighty bulky and not very good.

I would use the zepplin or figure 8, with the preferance being the zepplin. It looks hard but it is easy. I aint got the camera, but I can post a pic later.


Carl

 

[MasterBlaster]

Its a BOWLINE, not a sheet bend.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

MB,

If you use two seperate pieces of rope, even if they are the same diameter, its a sheet bend. Not the proper knot to use to securely tie two ropes together.

I'll use it to send a rope up to a climber. Actually, a slipped SB works the best.

Show me a picture of what you're talking about. What are you calling a SB and what a Bowline?

Tom

 

[MasterBlaster]

Okay, heres the sheet bend;

And heres the bowline;

Bear in mind I lock the bowline. I have no problem using a sb over a bowline, I never knew the bowline was inadequate. It has never failed me, so far.

 

[Lumberjack]

So you tie the first bowline one one rope, then tie the other bowline on the other rope, with the loop from the second bowline goin through the first? So they are connected loop to loop?


This is ok if you use a biner, but some will say that the friction on the rope is a no no, and I would agree. Using a biner would fix it, but the knots would be bulky.

Here is a pic of a Zepplin Bend.

It is easy to tie, and easy to untie. Also it doesn't lock up after heavy loading, and is symetrical.

Carl

 

[Tom Dunlap]

MB,

You'r contradicting yourself I think. You talk about tieing two ropes together. You can't do that and have a bowline.

The paths that the two rope parts follow are the same for both knots but the mechanics change when you have it "open" like a SB.

Did you read any of the pages that were linked? It is hard to imagine that any one of them would have talked about the shortcomings of using a SB for loading a rope. Fine for tagging two lines but not loads.

Tom

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by Lumberjack

This is ok if you use a biner, but some will say that the friction on the rope is a no no, and I would agree. Using a biner would fix it, but the knots would be bulky.


Carl

Could you elaborate Carl? Don't all knots have friction on themselves and therefore the rope?

 

[jamie]

2 bowlines

2 bowlines, tie one bowline on one rope, then with the other rope tie a running bowline thru the loop

viola 2 ropes tied with a bowline, we dont use this for lifelines we use it for lowering ropes that are about 10ft too short

jamie

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Loop Knots

Bowline and sheetbend are the same pattern , but loaded differently. A becket bend is in there too and safer than sheet bend. The becket is an eye, so this is made with like a bowline as the loop that the choking laces around. The bends here can be made with 2 rings like double bowline for security, maybe some strength. Either one of the bends is very, very handy slipped for quick release.

i think that logically anything in the turn/round turn family structure needs a stopper knot. i think girth/larks need least stopper knot, clove type lacings like TL walk almost as much as the turns, as an element of their construction.

The ones that don't : Distel; grabs other end, so it can't walk, Constrictor: sits on it's own easy to hold tail with the full load force Buntline;(i think), for the force is reduced around an instrument before force goes to clove back to it's own line (line barrel is anchor to self)- and also pinches against the device.

But i would expect a TL to walk as a member of this family, without that leg covered; and any open tail friction hitch i hang on will have one anyway. Even if it was a blakes, that has greatly reduced load to fight in tail, and yet pinches under main loading point (kinda like anchor).

In olde school there would be 3 fig. 8 stoppers. Here we are talking about one right after the hitch, then a stopper knot so as not to run off end of line. also, one between snap and friction hitch, so if rescued and cut free from friction hitch to be lowered by rope around tree, the knot wouldn't pull out tied to snap; just when things were strarting to look good....

 

[Tim Gardner]

The Carrick Bend (Full Carrick Bend) # 1439 is the best bend I have found for joining two ropes end to end. I have tied one in a bullrope and put it under strain with a loader and was able to untie it very easily with only my fingers. If you look at the bend after it has been set it looks similar to a bowline and is untied the same way.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Carrick is better, not sure about in unlike lines though. If not set tight it can slide i think tryng to seat and may walk out too.

i generally make and think of Carrick as a muenter to muenter, giving the same lace around 1/2 hitch pattern. i think that gives easy adjustablility but also the possible slide to seating.

Definately a stronger and more secure bend though once seated. Sheet bend tries to compete with Carrick by bending unlike lines twogather, quicknes,and ability to be slipped options.

edit: i prefer DBY to metal link to DBY, for a positive quick componenet system; resorting to rope on rope, must untie strategies second.

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
Could you elaborate Carl? Don't all knots have friction on themselves and therefore the rope?

I was thinking of 2 ropes tied together using 2 bowlines w/ there loops interlocked.

I would rather use the carrick.

What I was saying is the friction in the load bearing loops, but for the short amount of time we would use a setup like that it would be irrelavant. I was sayin connect the ropes with bowlines tied together with a bowline.

 

[Tim Gardner]

Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder


i generally make and think of Carrick as a muenter to muenter, giving the same lace around 1/2 hitch pattern. i think that gives easy adjustablility but also the possible slide to seating.

I agree that the Carrick also looks like the muenter. If you will rotate the knot 1/4 turn you will see the bowline/bowline also.