Bankrupt...or working dead?

[oldugly]

I have posted a similar thread in business management forum asking if anyone has any experience in filing bankruptcy.

Let me start by saying I believe in paying my bills, and I am not considering this lightly. With the prices I have to charge in this area due to all the hacks invading recently...I can work every day..and still not be able to make my bills. It has steadily gotten worse over the last 4 years and due to some very poor business decisions on my part...it has gotten to the point of no return.

I really do not see a viable solution to my finances other than bankruptcy..but even then I do not know if that is a solution at all. So if anyone has any experience with this..good or bad..please let me know.

Thank you in advance...

Red

 

[BCbound]

Not know the size of your company, but I assume you have some equipement to be in debt and your situation. Could you sell it all and keep the bare minimum to keep going. Climbing equipement and small trailer. Just do the easy jobs and sub out the big stuff or sell the jobs you don't want. Pretty easy to make profit that way. Not huge numbers but a living.

Maybe taking on a partner.
Hope thing work out. It is hard to compete with the hacks when your trying to be a pro.

 

[dellwas]

Not sure about stateside, but there is a program in most, if not all Provinces in Canada called Orderly Payment of Debts, or some such other verbiage in other Provinces. It allows you to pay one lump sump to a Provincial Dept., that then allocates a percentage to all of your creditors, based on what you owe each. It prevents creditors that are registered with the Province, against your indebiture, from contacting you, and it prevents bankruptcy, or solvency if banks etc, try to force you into it. Your state might have something similar.

In Canada, you can owe a minimal amount and file. You legally can't borrow money for 7 years, but can after that. I went through it as a kid, and now have an excellent credit rating, to the point that I have an 80K line of credit. Not bragging, just trying to point out that it isn't always the end of the road.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

6 years ago

i got real sick missed about 18 months of work got in a deep hole. i finally filed chapter 13. saved my life. i was suicidal after a couple years of running hard and going under slowly. mt marriage was headed south from the stress. i filed saved my house paid off a negotiated percentage over 5 years. wasn't an easy choice for me i've never even collected unemployment in my life when i coulda. was raised old school. it took for me sitting with a pistol in one hand looking at my two year ols and trying to decide if she was better off with me dead or alive. i chose alive, but it was a close choice.i paid it off early by giving up my income tax checks. i don't regret it. it has costs and consequences but in my situation they were less than the alternatives

 

[dellwas]

Wow, man thanks for sharing, and pretty honest as well....

i got real sick missed about 18 months of work got in a deep hole. i finally filed chapter 13. saved my life. i was suicidal after a couple years of running hard and going under slowly. mt marriage was headed south from the stress. i filed saved my house paid off a negotiated percentage over 5 years. wasn't an easy choice for me i've never even collected unemployment in my life when i coulda. was raised old school. it took for me sitting with a pistol in one hand looking at my two year ols and trying to decide if she was better off with me dead or alive. i chose alive, but it was a close choice.i paid it off early by giving up my income tax checks. i don't regret it. it has costs and consequences but in my situation they were less than the alternatives

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

man i'm a hammerhead by nature

i once did a year in jail rather than borrow 250 bucks for a restitution payment. so i hate not standing up on my own 2 feet and filing for bankruptcy was the next worse thing in my mind to going light in the loafers. it was definitely a last resort for me but it was/is worth it to keep my family together. it was very hard to get past the way i was raised and do it though. once i saw the lawyer the relief was immediate. all the calls stopped i was 6 months back on mortgage and hours, literally , from foreclosure. chapter 13 allowed me to regroup keep house and tools and get caught back up on mortgage. In my case there were a couple creditors that it was morally imperative that i pay them back in full and once the court mandated stuff was over i paid them back the remainder of what they were owed tough deal lifes like that though

 

[oldugly]

Thanks for all the replies. Cassandra's lucky to have a dad like you, sir. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I can relate to the thought process and the decision whether they are better off with you or without you, my kids are pretty well grown...so the jury's still out on that one for me.

I have sold what equipment I can..what I have left is of little monetary value, and the prices are so low now...well I don't think I would get nearly what I would need out of them to help much.

My main concerns are the mortgage, a second mortgage that I took out a few years ago, and being able to actually keep working. I'm not a young man anymore, and don't know anything but trees...too old to hire out to someone else, too young to retire. 35 years in tree work is pretty worthless when you don't have the physical ability to put it to use anymore, a few hours of climbing and I am shot for the day. The bucket truck helps extend my day some, but there are alot of competitors in this area looking for those easy bucket trees.

There are a few private debts I owe that I will not walk away from, but mostly its between credit cards and medical bills that are crucifying me. Everyone says I can set up regular payments, and reduce the rates..etc. But as you all know regular pay and monthly payments are hard in this business, so it is impossible to commit to a long term agreement. Several months of the year I am making a good profit...and playing catch up from getting behind the rest of the year...only to repeat the process. This year I haven't even been able to catch up.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

legally

i had to put all my debts in the plan you are allowed to reaffirm any debt you want though. there is a trick there. as soon as you file you may find yourself getting credit card offers. often from cards that were in the bankruptcy or an affiliate. two reasons one they know you can't file again and they charge high interest and the tricky one is that somewhere in all that fine print is hidden a clause that says that by accepting this new credit card you are reaffirming your old debt with them. so be careful.

and good luck man i've been there and if i can make it through it so can you. i was able to pay my lawyer a small fee up front and the rest went into the payment plan.mine was 7 years ago and i paid 800 bucks total. i paid back 32% of what was owed over 5 years. the good news is that the clock starts running on the day you filed so the date it drops off is the date i filed not the date i paid off i am about to come outa the woods

 

[ozzy42]

Thanks for all the replies. Cassandra's lucky to have a dad like you, sir. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I can relate to the thought process and the decision whether they are better off with you or without you, my kids are pretty well grown...so the jury's still out on that one for me.

I have sold what equipment I can..what I have left is of little monetary value, and the prices are so low now...well I don't think I would get nearly what I would need out of them to help much.

My main concerns are the mortgage, a second mortgage that I took out a few years ago, and being able to actually keep working. I'm not a young man anymore, and don't know anything but trees...too old to hire out to someone else, too young to retire. 35 years in tree work is pretty worthless when you don't have the physical ability to put it to use anymore, a few hours of climbing and I am shot for the day. The bucket truck helps extend my day some, but there are alot of competitors in this area looking for those easy bucket trees.

There are a few private debts I owe that I will not walk away from, but mostly its between credit cards and medical bills that are crucifying me. Everyone says I can set up regular payments, and reduce the rates..etc. But as you all know regular pay and monthly payments are hard in this business, so it is impossible to commit to a long term agreement. Several months of the year I am making a good profit...and playing catch up from getting behind the rest of the year...only to repeat the process. This year I haven't even been able to catch up.

My wife filed last year,but I did not file with her because of some ongoing health problems ,I would have been right back in the hole with med bills.

Her debt was mostly credit cards and a new ford truck we bought but could no longer afford.
Lost the truck but, was able to keep her 2 yr old car, as she was driving 50 miles per day for her job,and needed something reliable and good on gas,
plus the payment was not that much on the hyundai,especially when you consider it is still under warrenty.[no major repair bills]
Oddly enough the worst part was coming up with the $1,600 to give the lawyer up front.Worth every penny though.



I have seen people file after a tough time hit them ,and then recover
as dellwas posted. It can really be a second chance.

OTOH I have known some who file like clockwork every 7 years.
Just play it like a game.

My condition is only slightly better than yours.I can climb 6-8 hours if need be ,but I sure feel it the next day.
The only things I know good enough to make a living at is tree work and truck driving.DOT says I ain't healthy enough to drive a truck anymore.
So I guess I have to be healthy enough to climb trees.

Hope things work out for you.

 

[fireman]

Hacks

Oldugly we are having the same problem with hacks. we are going to be fixing and helping out a lady tomorrow that wrecked her house and took her to the cleaners.WE have been just making it but not sure how much longer for past 2 yrs.But my problem has been hacks mechanics and a person I hired to work with us doing hurricane work in texas.When does it end?What can we do to stop the hacks from ruining our industry.:chainsawguy:

 

[bayard]

put the hacks out of biz

if they are illegal -call someone and keep calling till they are gone.if they are working cheap just to work. not a lot you can do.maybe sell a higher level of work? k

 

[fireman]

I think all of us are doing that work ethic and quality of work is excellent .people dont care just want the cheapest price.

 

[Rftreeman]

Oldugly I'm sorry to hear of your situation, I know how you feel...I don't call them hacks though, I call the crackheads cause that's what 90% of them are, crackheads, most likely using stolen equipment and all they care about is getting a couple hundred bucks to hit the pipe with....I priced a $1500.00 tree out once at $1000.00 and thought I was the lowballer, some crackhead did it for $400.00, go figure.........

 

[Dutch295]

oldugly,
I feel for you man. I went a stretch this summer where I went 0 for 12 on quotes and came real close to not renewing my insurance.

I mentioned your situation to my wife (she's an attorney / not bankruptcy though) and she offered the following suggestion... check out a website meritas.org ... to put it in terms that a tree guy will understand, this organization weeds out the hacks of the lawyer field.

good luck

 

[Taxmantoo]

Would you still be in dire straits without the hospital bills?

Talk to the charity department at the hospital.
Many years ago, a friend of mine had a heart attack and triple bypass. It took some talking, but once he convinced them he had no income, and no assets that weren't exempt in bankruptcy, they wrote off the whole $52,000 as charity, saving themselves and him the cost of bankruptcy.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I have two best friends: One is a bankruptcy attorney, the other is bankrupt. They know of each other but are not close friends. The attorney's point of view is that in some situations, when all else has failed, bankruptcy is a viable way to get relief. He tells me horror stories about clients, and I can understand why they were forced to take a legal out. The fellow who is bankrupt, OTOH, says that if he had it to do over, he never would have declared bankruptcy. He is facing non-discharge cases, now, that may lead to other legal problems. In the final analysis, you need to talk to folks who have gone through the process and try to get enough pros and cons to make your own informed decision. As for suicide, if you have offspring, young or old, you must understand that a suicide by a close relative makes those related to that person far more apt to take their own lives at a later time. That is a statistical fact. If you ponder the fact that your death might lead to the suicide of your own flesh and blood, you might just forget going that route. I have been fairly close friends with seven suicides in my life. Their families and I, to a lesser extent, have never gotten over those acts.
Hacks and, here in Texas, illegals, make staying in business very tough. If I counted on only trees for my income, I would be working the street corners with a "Hungry, will work for food!" sign, by now. I am thankful that I invested wisely as a kid and can take it a bit easier as I approach sixty. I still do the climbing for my company, but the aches and pains are constant companions now. I actually yell at them, from time to time. "Get the hell off my back you SOB's!" I suppose I might be in the funny farm if someone saw/heard me yelling at myself. It actually cracks me up when I yell at myself, though, and it seems to do the trick, every now and then.

 

[oldugly]

Sunrise, and others. Money is just money...and not worth my life. My statement was meant that as I get older and the kids take care of themselves, (only one left at home and she is in college now, and working..able to take care of herself) I see less value in myself, and less need for me to be here.
The financial troubles, and contemplating bankruptcy, has lead to depression..and thoughts of different "solutions", but I have no intentions of suicide. When my kids were younger I went through a very rough stretch, and my kids saved my life...they needed me, regardless if I was worthy of them or not. I don't think they need me anymore...but I am way too much of a coward to face my Creator and explain why I gave up on His greatest gift to me.
That was a distraction and a careless off handed remark and I apologize for your concern for me in that regard.
I am so grateful for the replies. I thought sure I would get blasted by people saying I was being irresponsible..etc. I expected some sound advice..and there have been some good ideas, and it will help me make my decisions, but I never expected the support you guys have given me.
I have been very ashamed of my situation, and myself for even considering bankruptcy, Now I guess I need to talk to a professional...see what my options are...and try to make some better decisions in the future.

 

[fireman]

Oldugly keep going hold your head up high u have provided for your family all these years.look at all the people that live off the system never had a job all there lives and expect something for nothing . WE work our a## off and keep on trying to make our lives better and those who did it honestly and give there all get penalized by the government and people who cheat the system.Be proud of yourself and keep on cut those trees.I do it because I love being up in the air and hanging from a rope and a sense of pride when I finish a job and the client says I didn't know that could be done.There are not to many people that take pride in there work we are the last few, the others are only in it for the all mighty dollar.Keep Going brother pm me if you need anything.:yourock:

 

[treeslayer]

But my problem has been hacks mechanics and a person I hired to work with us doing hurricane work in texas.:chainsawguy:

Hi Tom, you referring to JR in Texas, right?

opcorn:opcorn:

 

[jefflovstrom]

I do it because I love being up in the air and hanging from a rope and a sense of pride when I finish a job and the client says I didn't know that could be done.There are not to many people that take pride in there work we are the last few, the others are only in it for the all mighty dollar.Keep Going brother pm me if you need anything.:yourock:

I don't get it. Are you a fireman or a tree guy? Or are you a fireman that does tree wok on the side? I am just curious.
Jeff