I think the tackifier difference is why motor oil fared better in the wear scar test by Project farm but did not do as well on the actual sawing tests, judged by wear on the links. The motor oil had more EP additives, but the lack of tackiness probably caused less of it to remain on the bar.
Bar oil $7.49 @ TSC
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If you run a saw with tacky bar oil like Durex and then run it with something thin like Walmart super tech what you will find is there is almost no differance. In fact the wood your cutting matters much more. I've cut standing dead red oak that had a three inch layer of dry rot that turned to powder when cut. No matter how much oil or what type the chain is dry when cutting that.
It's also worth noting that there was a guy named Walt Galer who was an engineer for Windsor chain back in the day. He claimed tack additives were a marketing thing and that the best lubricant for chain and bar was light weight hydraulic oil.
I don't know about all that. I just run the cheapest dedicated bar oil I can find and I have never had issues. Most of the guys on this website, yourself included don't run a saw enough to worry about a bar wearing out.
Don't know about using one enough, I usually try to sell a saw when the chain gets dull.
True. I have only worn out 1 bar, though that was after it had been swaged and ground a couple of times. I suspect most people just throw the bar away when it cuts to one side or gets wallowed out. I generally use the cheapest bar oil I can find also, though the PF test was rather interesting.
I know I bag on PF alot and he deserves it, but I did find the test interesting for one reason. It proved that Zinc(ZDDP) as found in motor oils, although not a EP additive, is an effective antiwear additive on his test rig. This is interesting because essentially using such a rig to test motor oils is skewed by the zinc content. As such a uncertified motor oil like Amsoil will always do better than those that follow API mandated zinc/ash limits.
This also raises some interesting questions on his two cycle oil test as it would also skew the results toward oils with zinc. No FD certified oils have zinc in them that I am aware of. I would bet that Saber does contain some zinc. It's one of the things you do to help wear with high oil to fuel ratios if you don't have to worry about JASO FC/FD ash limits.
Have you seen the long-term reports on oils by others? I have seen several. There is a guy named Flagg who runs a saw repair shop and has a YouTube channel and he has repeatedly seen better results from Amsoil than any other when he has torn down dozens of saws. Regarding PF, you do put it down a lot, but you do not specifically say what is wrong with his tests or make suggestions on how to achieve relevant test results. That makes your statements lacking in substance. I remember you specifically did say there is no point in doing the volatility test as there are already Noack test results published for most oils. However, in the world of science, when test results are reported, other scientists all around the world will try to repeat the same test to see if they got the same results. That is how anomalies and lack of reproducibility are weeded out.
I have stated exactly why I have a problem with PF's home brewed tests.
You don't verify NOACK results with a home brewed test.
As for Richard Flagg. He reports what he sees. What he doesn't mention is how a saw is run and how it's tuned impacts what he sees greatly. As such I think he jumps to conslusions. I have tested Amsoil Saber and didn't find it to be that clean. People I trust have gotten great results from Dominator. I have also seen results from Interceptor in sleds and it wasn't anything special. I have used a case of gallon jugs of Amsoil Marine oil that I won in a Yamaha outboard and it was pretty good. So, yes, Amsoil can sell a decent oil. The problem I have with them is their deceitful marketing and their sales model that has every moron put there pumping the stuff. That and you would have to be totally ignorant of the industry to think Amsoil has access to the best base oils and additives, which are often proprietary in nature. They have no leg up on Shell, Chevron and Mobil.
How do you know they don't buy the same base stocks from Shell, Mobil or Chevron? Possibly one or more of those are willing to sell base oils at a premium price, thus making more money that they do selling their own formulated oils. BTW, PF just released a video on diesel oils. Once again, Amsoil won on lubricity, lower power draw and lower volatility. It lost on cold flow.
There are many products on the market in many different industries that are made by small companies and yet are better than those made by the big ones. It is often a marketing decision. The big companies may choose to go after the mass market with a decent product that is not the best possible, in order to maximize profits. Small companies may opt to go for a niche market or a premium-priced market.
I do agree that Amsoil has a lousy marketing system. But my experience with their products has been outstanding. I am a "dealer" for them, but that is a sham. I do not sell their products. I pay the price to become a dealer because the dealer discount saves me much more than the annual membership price. It is like joining Costco or Sam's club to get the discount, nothing more.
I notice your tone has gotten more civil. I appreciate that. But I was hoping that by now you would apologize for wishing me to be killed by a truck. Surely you realize that arguing about oil is not worth that outcome.
That is who they buy them from no doubt. However, the majors hold back the latest stuff and make it proprietary.
As for diesel oils. I have worked for two large mining companies during the course of my career. I have never seen Amsoil used in any diesel equipment. You will also not find Amsoil used with any regularity in OTR truck fleets. Why do you suppose this is? Maybe because in the real world and in the field Amsoil offers no advantage.
As for PF lubricity test. It's meaningless and offers no read accross for what an oil will encounter in an engine. If he used his test gizmo on gear oils it woukd have some relevance.
I have seen lots of Shell Rottella, Chevron Delo and Mobil Delvac used.
I might have apologized had you not whined to the moderator.
So you still wish me dead? Your wish was completely out of line.
I have never seen one there.
I never said that.
What you said was that the world and this forum would be better off if I were hit by a truck, which would presumably be fatal. To me, that expresses a wish on your part. What a miserable human being you must be, to say something like that!
Your presuming that.
I don't like snitches.
I don't really care about what you like or don't like. You were out of line. You actually deserve to be banned for life from this forum. You should show a little humility and be thankful you were not.
Some of the more anal diesel enthusiast send their oil to be tested after ever so many miles. Mobil One Turbo Diesel does very well. I buy Rotella T6 ten gallons at a time and run it in everything, even a 1953 Farmall Super A. Cheaper than Mobil One. Big thing is to change the dumb stuff regularly.
I have never had an oil related issue with anything, chainsaws included. People's ability to tear **** up is a curiosity to me. But, gives me something to do.
I have never had a oil related failure with anything. I will never comprehend how I did this without using Amsoil exclusively...
Rotella is the most popular diesel oil in the US. I imagine it probably works ok.
To me, the biggest benefit for high quality synthetic oils is the extended drain intervals. I have normally changed oil on my cars every 25000 miles, changing filters every 12,500. With non-synthetic oil, I used to change it every 3000 miles. For my tractors, it is every 200 hours. For my diesel trucks, it was every 25000 miles until my current F350, which I change every 10,000 miles on the recommendation of Amsoil due to possible fuel dilution of the oil. I normally keep my vehicles for about 250,000 miles, though I got nearly 300,000 out of a Saturn; when its timing chain broke, I opted not to get it fixed, as the cost would be more than the car was worth. Its upholstery was pretty worn out by then also. I did not get so many miles out of a diesel Suburban (pre-Allison) or an older F250 with the horrible 6.0 liter diesel. But my problems with those two were not oil related. I imagine you have heard all the horror stories about those two engines, so I won't get into that here.
