Bar Oil

[Justsaws]

TreeCo, I use soybean oil. I call it seed oil because of all the discussions about oils and the environment that happen where I work. We settled on the titles seed oil(soy,corn,coconut, all nut oils), meat oil(nasty), petro oil, fish oil(nastier than meat) and fryer oil(used, even nastier still). It would be a lazy man's gross generalizations. I work with a range of people from hippies to haters. Conversations usually would go astray because of to many different names for the same item. Sorry for the confusion.

I would think that for occasional light use a high stability soy oil would be okay. There is an apple orchard near me that uses it and they seem quite pleased. I do not own one of those saws, the closest I come to it is an old ragged out 020AV. The soy oil works fine in that saw. I would think the 200T would be a lot faster so try before you commit to a bulk buy. You will have to keep the chain sharp, no just one more cut. With the on and off running that a top handle saw usually gets around here a lot tree farmers and orchard growers seem to be switching.

I hope that helps. It takes a lot of drops to fill a bucket but eventually it gets full. Either that or the government turns the hose on.

 

[sawinredneck]

Thank you very much Justsaws!!!!!

That was very enlightening information! I am by no means ready to make the switch, but I may start in my 192T to see how it goes.
I also agree with ceaderbarns, I am in KS, hit 101 here also today, I can just see that thin oil flying everywhere except where it needs to be!
I am not coming off as being "baited" but some have made some interesting points and I want to check the validity of them before juming to conclusions.
And perhaps with the mindpower we have at our disposale here at AS maybe "WE" can all come up with a solution that works closely to petrol and doesn't cost $12 a gallon!! Just a thought, I know its a lot to ask for.
Andy

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Why wouldn't some of those tackifiers work in veggie oil? Or is it just a matter of market demand?

 

[Justsaws]

TreeCo, the brand of soy oil I use is called Baker's and Chef's, it came from Sam's Club. Go to Sam's Club.com( I think) and use thier club locator. Then type in soy oil, fryer (new oil)oil, canola oil oil and see what is available near you. The brands and type depend on location. High stability soy oil costs more but seemed to work better.

If your saws are still under warranty I would buy Stihl's bio-oil. Dealers around me seem to be very picky about the details, if they sold gasoline you would have to by their premix to get warranty work. That is not an insult to all dealers or to Stihl, just my opinion based one what I have seen. A dealer must protect himself and his product from abuse. I think running seed oils should qualify as abuse because the saws were not designed for them.

Blueridgemark, I have used off the shelf oil tacker with many different "formulas". It works well. The one I am using now is SuperTech Oil Treatment. I do not use it with the soy oil but I think it would work. My guess as to your question would be low demand and low profit without demand. There are natural ways to make seed oils tack better but they would require additional process and money.

 

[sawinredneck]

All of my saws are out of warranty.

Thanks for the info. I will be comparing two MS200's. One on regular Stihl bar oil and one on veg oil.

Dan

Please do!!!!! The others may not share my enthusiasim, but I am really curious about this! Also let us know what the temps are, just to get an idea.
Thank you in advance,
Andy

 

[sawinredneck]

I think we need Ben in on this one!!! He seems to know more about oils than any one person should!
Andy

 

[coveredinsap]

My guess as to your question would be low demand and low profit without demand.

There it is right there.

 

[bwalker]

Petro oils are not biodegradable, they dispersible. Very different

Petroleum oils most certainly do biodegrade.

 

[coveredinsap]

Petroleum oils most certainly do biodegrade.

That's not completely true. Only in their unrefined or 'pure' (unmixed) form. Not when they are made up of all other sorts of petroleum based byproducts.

And even then it takes a long time.

 

[manual]

Most interesting thread, Dudes.

The Mother Earth is all of our concern.
Oil that is spilled on the ground does get into your water table.
The oil that we use is all taken below the water table.
If you chose to use veggie oil for bar oil more power to you.
Is it the best thing to use? Of course not. More wear and tear on chain and bar. We all Know that. chose your poison. I feel in the long run you will be wasting the resourses faster using veggie over bar oil. Think about it.
What does it take to make a chain or a bar.
Man kind made this easy life we live and there is a cost that goes with it.
For every action there is a reaction. So what to do.
Should we cut our wood by hand using a Axe and buck saw. Take it out of the woods using a draft horse? Where do we start and where do we stop.

 

[sawinredneck]

Petroleum oils most certainly do biodegrade.

OK..... But back to the original question Ben, what if anything could we add to veggie oil, or what ever is recomended, for a tackifier? What could be used to help reduce the friction caused by not using petol based lubes, without becoming petrol again?
Andy

 

[Elmore]

... If you chose to use veggie oil for bar oil more power to you.
Is it the best thing to use? Of course not. More wear and tear on chain and bar. We all Know that...

This may or may not be correct info. I read that Canola has very good lubricating properties and adheres very well to metal surfaces.

"Manufacturers and some users claim that there is a potential for extended bar and chain life when using canola-based products because it lubricates and adheres to metal better than petroleum-based oils."

VEGETABLE OIL FOR LUBRICATING CHAIN SAWS by Skip Garrett, Mechanical Engineer Tech Tips Fire Management

PDF : http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/pdf/98511316.pdf

HTML : http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...+property+Canola+Oil&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9

Special note on industrial rapeseed
Industrial rapeseed and canola have very similar growth characteristics, but industrial rapeseed has large amounts of erucic acid. Erucic acid is an inedible seed oil component of value in industry. Many uses of industrial rapeseed have been developed for the marketplace. Erucamide, a derivative of erucic acid, has a unique lubricating property that allows its use as an "anti-block" agent and also a "slip agent."
Canola: A Promising Oilseed
http://muextension.missouri.edu/xplor/agguides/crops/g04280.htm

I think it may be of benefit for you to look into this more closely.

<img src="http://www.extenze.com/girl_looks_guy.gif">

 

[sawinredneck]

Good post Elmore, but it is still "-based" oils, they are not getting into what they add as well as it's probably still $12 a gallon! They also did not really get into the effects of higher temps, other than it might not be good during fires (what is BTW?), Ok but what about on a 100 deg day?
I think I am finding more questions than answers, welcome to my world.
Andy

 

[nate cutter]

canola oil posinois?

These guys say its not miracle bar oil.

http://www.karinya.com/canola.htm

 

[Elmore]

... They also did not really get into the effects of higher temps, other than it might not be good during fires (what is BTW?), Ok but what about on a 100 deg day?

...because it appeared that the oil comes off or evaporates in extremely hot conditions.(Petroleum-based oils also have problems with these conditions)

but this sounds pretty good to me :

Tests have shown that canola-based chain oils provide good performance down to -25 degrees C but storage can affect the pour point temperature (they may not pour easily after standing for several days at -30 degrees C). Generally, vegetable-based oils have higher flash points than petroleum-based products.

Where is TreeMachine when you need him?
I might try some Canola straight from the bottle if I can find a deal.
My Makita doesn't seem to like that Poulan Pro oil that I have been feeding it.

 

[sawinredneck]

These guys say its not miracle bar oil.

http://www.karinya.com/canola.htm

Not to belittle youre point Nate, but if I were to worry about every facet of foods being unhealthy, I would starve to death!!!!
And eating it is completley different than using it for bar oil, so that point is mute.
Andy

 

[sawinredneck]

...because it appeared that the oil comes off or evaporates in extremely hot conditions.(Petroleum-based oils also have problems with these conditions)

but this sounds pretty good to me :

Tests have shown that canola-based chain oils provide good performance down to -25 degrees C but storage can affect the pour point temperature (they may not pour easily after standing for several days at -30 degrees C). Generally, vegetable-based oils have higher flash points than petroleum-based products.

Where is TreeMachine when you need him?
I might try some Canola straight from the bottle if I can find a deal.
My Makita doesn't seem to like that Poulan Pro oil that I have been feeding it.

I agree with that Elmore, but at a 20-40% increase in price, my goal is to save a buck, not spend more!
Yes, I think Treemachine could be quite....... Ummmmmmmmm...... interesting? to hear from now?
I am also curious how Treecos experimant turns out today!! It may be just the ticket on the smaller and climbing saw types, still afraid to atempt it on the longer bars though. Without some hard evidence.
Andy

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

that point is mute.

Moot, not mute.

 

[sawinredneck]

Moot, not mute.

I seem to be on a roll today:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

 

[donnyman]

saw bar oil

My 2 cents.Up here in canada,central ontario we have 3 grades of bar oil.Light medium, and heavy,weight.Light for winter,medium for spring and fall,Heavey for summer.Or you can buy what ever and add or subtract some s.t.p to bring up the viscosity or tackyness.Its a no brainer.Also remove the bar and run a hacksaw blade down the grove in the bar and cean it out so the oil can get around to the under side of the bar where you do 90% of your cutting.Veedall make good bar oils,kendall.Big red,80 90 rear end lube used in drive axles for car works good.Most of the time its the operater,not the machine,oils or gases used.I have people still come to my house and complain about this brand of saw or that one.My saw wont start or it runs hot or why does it not seem to have any power.Do you now how many people still do not no you have to mix oil with the gas.Man like whats it been like about 56 years since the first chainsaws came out.Hornets and Malls to menchine a few.There the ones I started out fixing.My 2 cents.Donnyman.