Barber chair theory.

[Shawn Howard]

I'm new here - I work for a park reserve district in the forestry division.

I've been cutting for many years but only learning proper safety and
"best practice" techniques since starting this job 4 years ago.

We've recently been instructed to use the "plunge cut" method whenever possible.

The way I've been doing it is to do the back cut 2" (more or less, depending
on the size of the tree and the perceived amount of force etc) below the
plunge cut and to keep the bar perpendicular to the intended fall line -
parallel to the hinge - in order to evenly release the "holding wood" from
side to side.

Could that have prevented the splitting of the strap wood in your video?

 

[pdqdl]

Almost certainly. You might notice that he stood away from the plunge cut and nicked the corners of the remaining strap. Had he just kept cutting away from the hinge, it probably would have held to the end.


Either way, it was not a barber-chair. The trunk did not split toward the crown of the tree, and it didn't threaten the feller either with a horizontally slapping trunk nor with high-split wood falling back down on him.

Safe felling job.

 

[smokechase II]

Barber

AA:

It looks to me that the tree did split but that it wasn't a barber chair.

There appears to be a twisting split at about 4:25 in the video that comes down from the upper left. This split does not remain on the stump but is taken off with the fall.
You can see it by its light color.

A barber chair is a split where the fulcrum is moved up the tree.

In this case it was the back strap sponsoring the split, as it looks like the tree was pulling away from the strap, but it did not change the hinge. Another way of thinking of this is that it didn't create a method for the tree butt to either be suspended in the air or slam down on the faller. So it doesn't appear to be anywhere as dangerous as a 'chair but I don't like it. That doesn't mean I could have done better, just that it could have unintended consequences that I'm not familiar with.

I can't say but there may have been a way to prevent or further reduce this splitting from occurring. Perhaps to continue cutting the back strap till it popped cleanly? Then again, getting away from the stump and not getting the bar grabbed by the tree have merit.

It looked like leaving the strap at that corner was appropriate with what we saw of at least one lean on the tree, I would have suggested making all of the back cuts, both plunge (bore) and strap cuts from the side opposite the lean. (By using the sights while completing the face cut then matching that with the plunge/bore cut one does not need to even walk around the tree to check the off-side holding wood.) Avoiding cutting under the lean is desirable not just from bar pinching but from limbs and tops falling on the cutter. There is a tendency in the plunge cutting world to almost brag about using shorter bars. A longer bar means not just distance from danger - while bucking for instance - but also not placing yourself in danger.
Long Bar = safety.

One error that I would ask you to consider is that you didn't look up even once while making any of the back cuts. Your vertical awareness moments were only after completing the strap cut. Your plunge cuts were made at an uncomfortable height that required more concentration. That sort of multiplied the distraction and that height, closer to your eye level, can cause even more distraction with saw chips/dust being blown into your face.

In any case I would suggest the plunge cutting was highly desirable on this tree.

Just a thought for the reader, if any complication in a tree/snag being dropped takes away from your vertical situational awareness to the point you are oblivious of what is happening above while cutting, that might be a good tree to step away from.

 

[smokechase II]

strap wood

Shawn:

I think what you have been taught about completing the release a couple inches below the plunge (bore) cut is correct.

The reason for that location is to reduce risk of the bar being grabbed by the tree going over. That is highest when just 'cutting out the back'. Be aware that grabbing can still occur with the technique you've been taught because the strap could pull a slab all the way down if there is a 'root pull' possibility. Best to avoid placing your strap above an individual root flare.

I believe a common denominator in both videos is the cutters stopped, the trees were under stress, then splits happened.

 

[the Aerialist]

Merry Christmas to All, and to All a Good Year ...

Many thanks to all who contributed and commented on my video. To Smoke, and Sawtooth: I never did consider that a "barber chair" either, but confusion on my part as to which video was being commented on (i.e. the real barber chair video taken from my YouTube "channel"), led me to think everyone was commenting on my technique.

And Smoke, your comments about my lack of "vertical awareness" was the best advice for anybody felling any tree. Guilty as charged.

To Shawn, thanks for contributing your experience and the great tip of cutting 2" below the plunge/bore cut. Great advice, and thats how I will handle that situation in the future.

@ pdqdl: What was I thinking? Very observant to notice me nicking the sides of what turned out to be the small slab left standing. There was absolutely no reason to do this, I was just trying to "pretty it up", ultimately, those little nicks are what caused the slab to remain.

One other observation about the video is that the lean of the tree was greatly "enhanced" by the angle that Rich, my ground man was shooting from. What was not so apparent from the video was the extreme angle of the terrain we were on. It was hard to stand there at all, much less gain good footing for handling a saw. This is why I used my flip line to secure myself. This poor footing and the lack of ability to step back was why I was doing it that way, not any severe lean. The tree was only leaning slightly uphill. Bore/Plunge cutting was to keep the tree standing until I could unsnap more than any other reason.

 

[smokechase II]

Guilty myself

Good habits are hard to break.

There are a set of safe trees that I don't look up much on.

Really safe.

That's not right, is it?

Time for another resolution.

 

[the Aerialist]

there are no REALLY SAFE trees ...

Good habits are hard to break.

There are a set of safe trees that I don't look up much on.

Actually Smoke, that's what I considered that Oak, in the prime of life, good looking canopy (although way up there), and nothing dead in sight, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[derwoodii]

I think the conversation has been rather constructive, particularly the comment about "narrow taper" by R&R.

Hey I wus robbed Pdqdl, the taper observation was mine, all kool no biggie happy to help. I still not got a clear explanation of the Barber Chair metaphor how the names meaning is derived

Down here we call em slab outs, may I ask "Barber chair" what is the origin of this metaphor.

Best so far

Ive heard them called barber chairs because they say they will take your head off if it hits you. Or it could just be because the stump resembles a chair when it occurs

 

[Nailsbeats]

AA:

It looks to me that the tree did split but that it wasn't a barber chair.

There appears to be a twisting split at about 4:25 in the video that comes down from the upper left. This split does not remain on the stump but is taken off with the fall.
You can see it by its light color.

A barber chair is a split where the fulcrum is moved up the tree.

In this case it was the back strap sponsoring the split, as it looks like the tree was pulling away from the strap, but it did not change the hinge. Another way of thinking of this is that it didn't create a method for the tree butt to either be suspended in the air or slam down on the faller. So it doesn't appear to be anywhere as dangerous as a 'chair but I don't like it. That doesn't mean I could have done better, just that it could have unintended consequences that I'm not familiar with.

I can't say but there may have been a way to prevent or further reduce this splitting from occurring. Perhaps to continue cutting the back strap till it popped cleanly? Then again, getting away from the stump and not getting the bar grabbed by the tree have merit.

It looked like leaving the strap at that corner was appropriate with what we saw of at least one lean on the tree, I would have suggested making all of the back cuts, both plunge (bore) and strap cuts from the side opposite the lean. (By using the sights while completing the face cut then matching that with the plunge/bore cut one does not need to even walk around the tree to check the off-side holding wood.) Avoiding cutting under the lean is desirable not just from bar pinching but from limbs and tops falling on the cutter. There is a tendency in the plunge cutting world to almost brag about using shorter bars. A longer bar means not just distance from danger - while bucking for instance - but also not placing yourself in danger.
Long Bar = safety.

One error that I would ask you to consider is that you didn't look up even once while making any of the back cuts. Your vertical awareness moments were only after completing the strap cut. Your plunge cuts were made at an uncomfortable height that required more concentration. That sort of multiplied the distraction and that height, closer to your eye level, can cause even more distraction with saw chips/dust being blown into your face.

In any case I would suggest the plunge cutting was highly desirable on this tree.

Just a thought for the reader, if any complication in a tree/snag being dropped takes away from your vertical situational awareness to the point you are oblivious of what is happening above while cutting, that might be a good tree to step away from.

All good stuff Smoke. Very good.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Shawn:

I think what you have been taught about completing the release a couple inches below the plunge (bore) cut is correct.

The reason for that location is to reduce risk of the bar being grabbed by the tree going over. That is highest when just 'cutting out the back'. Be aware that grabbing can still occur with the technique you've been taught because the strap could pull a slab all the way down if there is a 'root pull' possibility. Best to avoid placing your strap above an individual root flare.

I believe a common denominator in both videos is the cutters stopped, the trees were under stress, then splits happened.

Grabbing can occur if you finnish your back cut straight out the back too. I've seen guys angle down from the back to trip a bore strap too, creating a back rest. Always try to leave the stump with your saw in hand and not in the the butt log.

Personally, I think the best way to trip a loaded bore strap is from underneath with a 45 degree or so angle up. Try to grab that Tree, lol.

 

[pdqdl]

Hey I wus robbed Pdqdl, the taper observation was mine, ...

You're right, of course. I was remembering that it was you that posted that comment, but I wanted to be sure, so I searched for "taper" in the thread. R&R popped up, and I was...delinquent in checking my facts.

It's all fixed now.

 

[smokechase II]

question

"Personally, I think the best way to trip a loaded bore strap is from underneath with a 45 degree or so angle up. Try to grab that Tree, lol."

This seems like a good idea to me.

I have done it some but don't have the experience to say.

Anyone here have a story or an instructor that taught doing the angle up from below?

Thanks

 

[tree MDS]

Sounds like brains and experience play out here..

...hmm

 

[the Aerialist]

i'm just going to listin to this one ...

... until someone can make a clear case of "why?" on this one. wut was that again?

 

[jefflovstrom]

Sounds like brains and experience play out here..

...hmm

Hmmm, I wonder if a Humboldt changes things?
Jeff

 

[sgreanbeans]

The reason it is called a "Barber Chair" is the action of the split. It resembles the action of an actual barber chair, the way they fold out and up, as I have been told anyways.

 

[derwoodii]

The reason it is called a "Barber Chair" is the action of the split. It resembles the action of an actual barber chair, the way they fold out and up, as I have been told anyways.

Ok ta beans make sense, now I gotta figure why we down here call em slab outs.

 

[nikole.957]

Ive heard them called barber chairs because they say they will take your head off if it hits you. Or it could just be because the stump resembles a chair when it occurs.

That tree may not have gone the way you intended it to, but at least you got a great video out of it. Many people will learn from this. Thanks for sharing.

 

[smokechase II]

Can do

"Hmmm, I wonder if a Humboldt changes things?
Jeff "

You can do a humboldt with a plunge back-cut.
I think a humboldt undercut would make things better.

I'd suggest that those 70 + degree open faces are pretty silly but use of a variety of different boring back-cuts with a reasonably open humboldt is the cats meow.

When you think about it, falling a heavy leaner with the lean, a humboldt means less cutting. Any attempt at a face where a cut comes in from the top means a lot more cutting.
Caution, Your mileage may vary with root flare.

= = = = = = = = = = =

I'm goona make an enemy of everyone here but a general rule of humboldt, at least 35 degrees open with a plunge back-cut on a barber chair prone tree is the best option.
Again, General rule.
DYODD on size up.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Not an enemy here. The humboldt is what I was first shown and it became the standard notch for me for many years. When you are climbing and dropping a stem or limb, the humboldt is just natural to me and I feel like I have more control. To each his own though. Just saying.
Jeff