Beating China at it's own game.

[smokechase II]

The out of round sprockets are actually a very clever improvement.
On part of the rotation you get more torque and on another more chain speed.
Seriously folks, thank you very much. I'm here all week. Try the veal.
The best part will be when saws like these are sent here on pallets with more Asian longhorn beetles in that wood.
Seriously folks, that isn't funny either.
What is going on in China is a giant gamble for the future of the world.
Can they be converted to a democracy by gradual success and interaction with governments that treat people fairly under the rule of law?
China is very probably going to be the next #1. Is there another way?
In the meantime, let's stick with proven equipment.

 

[mktest]

Too late for me to think, but one difference Japan/China is that "everyone" in Europe/US ignored Japan (thinking they just made bad copies), so they beat "us" with better products sometimes. Can China beat "us" with better products? I don't think so, as much of the chinese production is relying on foreign designs. Yes, this might change, but China is not yet anywhere near Japan when it comes to product development. Japan government put restrictions on companies, virtually forcing them to meet high quality standards. "Made in Japan" eventually became synonymous with good quality.
Having said that, China turns out more new engineers every month than Sweden has made in the last 30 years combined so...

Also, China will face some serious social problems soon, with soaring unemployment (amazingly) and potential social unrest. I hope it won't become too violent.

 

[smokechase II]

mktest:
China can very easily beat us, given time.
We are basically better than Japan 50:1 (like the mix) at Nobel prizes.
What it takes to beat us is:
1) Hard work,
2) Natural resources, (China very weak on petro, but Japan isn't gifted either)
3) Ability to ignore trade laws, (such as their governments supporting Canadian timber-European aircraft-Chinese knockoffs).
4) Our failure to compete, (more money for me-lack of government support for industry).
Now I'd suggest that the greatest invention of the 20th century was the giving of democracy to the aggressor nations. We didn't just rebuild ourselves and our buddies.
Germany and Japan stand today as two great reasons on why, despite our faults, we are the best the world has seen.
Without war, can we bring China in? That would be even better than the Marshall Plan. But what a gamble. Cause if they don't cross over to freedom, what could a billion people with technology represent in the way of a threat?
Any Korean War Vets out there?

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I'm glad you love our country as I do, but don't think for a second that what we have here is any special form of 'freedom'. People in other parts of the world are different, and don't need or want what you might consider to be 'freedom'.

Have you been anywhere and talked to those people? I have, including the Chinese. The overwhelming majority want the kind of freedom we have.

Some die trying to get it.


We sure don't have the freedom our Founding Fathers intended, but what we have is a whale of a lot better than what anyone else has.

Anyone.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Tony, we went through the same thing with Japan, even though Japan had just earlier surrenedered to us (WWII). Look what happened. It looks very similar.

No, it's very different. The key is the timing. What we have now looks a lot like what we had with Japan BEFORE the war. We foolishishly traded with them, enriched them, and let them build up to where they thought they were big enough to attack and defeat us.


We're doing it again.

Never underestimate the desire for power. The Chinese gummit has it in spades, and the Chinese people have racial pride like most of us can't conceive. The fact that they are not regarded as our equal sticks in their craw.

It's not a question of IF we will be at war with China. It's WHEN.

 

[spacemule]

The fact that they are not regarded as our equal sticks in their craw.

The official motto of the US is that all are equal. The unofficial and actual practice is quite contrary. We need to stop bs'ing ourselves with the ideal that all are considered equal. That's as bogus as innocent until proven guilty. Racial pride?

Americans are among the proudest people I've had experience with. Something about pots and kettles comes to mind.

 

[JohnL]

Spacemule, we are not as proud as we should be, not in the right ways. If we were, no one would shop at Walmart.


Innovation? It is what we are (or were) known for. Unfortunately, when it comes to the actual production, the CEO SOBs are very content at having the cheaper labor China can provide. Personally I would like to see tariffs on US owned company goods made off-shore and shipped back to the US, the same as foreign owned goods that are shipped here for sale.

 

[smokechase II]

DanMan1:
Actually I do think we have substantially more freedoms here than those in China.
I don't consider women’s breasts as important an issue as a full measure of free speech. We do enjoy the benefit of 'more' free speech here than most other countries.
We pay very little in the way of taxes. We pay fewer taxes than any of the other major industrialized nations and less than almost all of the industrialized nations. Considering the benefits I've received. I am very appreciative.
Do we still have many flaws and is it worth a good deal of time/effort to correct those? Yes, of course.
We have many Koreans coming here to work for companies like Intel in Oregon. Why do so many Germans come here to work on computers? Because of greater freedom to do what they want, to achieve, to invent and so forth.
I hate to be positive, but as a middle class American with a healthy happy family, I'm one of the wealthiest human beings that have ever lived. Both financially and spiritually. I'd like that for everyone else, that hasn't had my good fortune.
Perhaps for those in Tibet.

 

[Schultzz]

Greed has a lot to do with it. Why should American Companies pay for American workers when all they have to do is have it made in China. No wages, workmens comp, benefits, retirement, etc. Then they sell it to people who are looking for a bargain. Is is really a bargain? We better not go to war with China. If they boycott us we're in big trouble. Walmart and Sams Club? They won't even provide a flag and flagpole to fly Ole Glory. What does that tell you? Yet you and I will probably continue to shop there. Why? Why do we do that?

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

The official motto of the US is that all are equal. The unofficial and actual practice is quite contrary. We need to stop bs'ing ourselves with the ideal that all are considered equal. That's as bogus as innocent until proven guilty. Racial pride?

Spend a few months over there, working and living with them, like I have. I don't mean living in the American hotels, either. You don't know what racial pride is. I'm not talking about the KKK kind of racism - this is another beast entirely.

 

[16gauge]

Anyone here know anything about economics? We sell tons of agricultural products to China every year. If you really care about the human condition, study economics just a little (American economic history is a good place to start). When someone in the USofA loses a job they or their family don't go hungry.

Speaking of economics, look at the problems on our southern borders. If our economy was not thriving we would not have this glut of immigration...legal or otherwise.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Question 1..
Yes

If it's not better here, please explain why so many want to move here. Aside from the Islamofascists, eco-idiots, and rich leftists, most of the world wants what we have.

China has been around for what.. 5000 years or so? The U.S.? How many laws have our lawyers and polititions added in a few hundred years in the U.S? Use that number and predict how many laws WE will have in 5000 years. There have probably been a hundred different laws added to the books in the last 20 years alone on what you can and can't do for your own children.

Have you ever heard of Communism? China's been around that long, but Communist China is a rather recent invention. THAT is where the problem with freedom is. None of their laws are even 75 years old.

It's not the QUANTITY of laws that is the problem. It's the QUALITY.

 

[PWB]

No country is perfect,including the US. I'm a Canadian that spent about ten years driving a truck back and forth to the states, we're a lot more integrated than you might think. Same thing is eventually going to hapen the world over whether you like it or not. As for "cheapest taxes in the industrialized world", it's like everything else, you get what you pay for! No such thing as an HMO up here! 1/3 or your population has no medical coverage right? Is that fair? No one in Canada will wind up bankrupt because of a heart attack, and I'll bet a lot of the european countries have even better coverage than we do. No system is perfect!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I'm educated Dan, which you obviously are not. I've been around the world, I've talked to - LIVED with - the working class people. There are very few that don't want what we have.


If America is so bad, go live in South Africa.

 

[spacemule]

If America is so bad, go live in South Africa.

I'm glad you're educated. This means you will know that you've just used a freshman-level textbook example of a false dilemma. Were you trying to appear ignorant, or, perhaps a more pertinent question, what was your purpose in this statement? :bang:

 

[tony marks]

yes the majority of the folks out of work here ,do eat. because of the strong tax base . that tax base will in my opinion shrink steadily in the future. the money for this stuff has to come from taxes. as the tax base shrinks this free help will im afraid become less easily obtained.
was a time that i was known to say ,anyone in this country that wants to work ,can. this imo is no longer true. snyder manufacturing here in albemarle nc was one of the last manufacturing plants still open. they recently announced they are closing . 200 more men out of work. now most jobs in this county, are service type.no manufacturing . ive watched alcoa plant close,the corning plant close,and scores of textile mills also. only thing left is a factory that stuffs animals or something and the michelin aircraft tire plant. these will go also ,i think. this translates into the common worker here finding fewer and fewer sevice type jobs availabe.we will have to invent income producing jobs. the tough, that work hard,, will. the rest will go hurting. until they decide to knuckle down and dig out some way to make a living.the days of free dole are coming to an end.this of course jmo.

 

[spike60]

Here's the problem with "cheap labor".

Let's say for example that a shoe factory in Maine closes up because it can no longer compete. It's been there making good shoes since the civil war, but they cost 3 times as much as shoes from China, so they have to shut down. A couple hundred people lose their jobs a month before Christmas. They don't know how they are going to pay their bills or support their families. The story is in the local papers and on the TV.

The public, (nearly all of whom are wearing shoes from China), says that it's a shame and that something should be done about the economic hardship of those workers. We've got to protect American jobs! The Governer ought to do something!! The President has to do something!! So a politician with balls, (who doesn't plan on being re-elected), says that the problem could easily be solved by placing a tariff on imported shoes so that the ones from China cost as much as the ones from Maine.

Now the public, concerned about their own "economic hardship", does an about face and says "Hey, wait a minute. I didn't mean that the solution should come out of my wallet. Why the heck should I pay 3 times as much for shoes so some guy in Maine can have a job?"

So, aren't those of us who purchase these products just as responsible for this situation as the greedy corporate SOB's who import the junk? I'm not really criticizing anyone here. It's just a combination of market forces and human nature. But we are all part of the problem and we are all resistant to being part of the solution if it's going to cost us $$$.

In case anyone is wondering: The boots I'm wearing are from LL Bean in Maine, and they are made in freaking China!

But the scary part is that they are not just building shoes over there. They are building lots of missles, ships, tanks etc. China is still a communist country pretending to be a capitalist one.

So, the situation is much deeper than simply cheap labor. They make our shoes, christmas lights, telephones, air conditioners and a thousand other things that people rush to wal-mart to gobble up and then use that money to equip their military. Then while they talk trade their stooge in North Korea fires missles over Japan.

But it's all OK if we can get a better deal and save a buck, right?

I think I need to get back to chain saws here.

 

[Crofter]

Tony I think you are seeing a real clear glimpse into the future. Eventually the service jobs dry up if there are no primary jobs to support them. When push comes to shove and times get a bit tough, a people such as the chinese (who are used to living on a fraction we are accustomed to) will walk all over us as we wander around in confusion over what happend to us. We are living high right now, but our credit cards are maxed out!
I think that rather than this suggestion of yours "the rest will go hurting. until they decide to knuckle down and dig out some way to make a living.the days of free dole are coming to an end.this of course jmo.", right now they are giving up on finding an alternative and switching to crime!
I don't think we are in such a wonderful position any longer. Being dependant on a large disposable income actually is not empowerment. That is how we are judging our success, yet in the face of evidence it is unsustainable should we be so comfortable with our position?
I sure dont want to see a collapse of our system.( I say our, tho I'm a Canadian we are pretty much locked together) It would be so much less painfull if we could get our acts together and get our spending and cost of living back in line with what we are truly able to earn with our own labour and resources. Right now we are counting on what we earn on the backs of someone elses labour and commodities as disposeable income for ourselves. Where would we be if that suddenly came to an end?

Frank

 

[JohnL]

WE are also the problem, because for the most part we do not care. I try whenever possible to buy US made. My boots are Knapp, made in USA.