OLD CHIPMONK
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The test is fairly simple , as long as you study. Former ISA Arborist. Former licensed spray applicator. Now just a tree chopper, with style. Also former Golf Course Superintendent. Senior Golfer without style.
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underwor
ArboristSite Operative
I understand why the ISA test is closed book. They are testing for a good general knowledge of the field. There are specific questions to be sure, but the aim of the test in the 80's when it was developed was that the average scores would be around 85%. This would be the center of a normal bell curve with 100 for the top and 70 for the failing range. It does not show that a person is an expert, only that they have a good working knowledge of the field. We have all known someone who passed, but chooses not to follow the path that they know is right. Many yield to temptation.
However, in real life you better know where to look up the answers. After 40 years in the field and teaching, I have come to realize that there are many things that I don't know. I have the most beat up textbooks in the classroom since they ride in the back seat of my truck all summer. I give most of my tests open book and on a few they can consult with their peers. This second category results in lower grades, since there is always someone with the wrong answer but a good argument. When they complain, I tell them that there will always be dissenting opinions (in personal communications and in advertising), it is up to them to sort fact from fiction or BS. If they have not studied enough in advance or do not know where to look it up quickly, they are going to left with the option of saying nothing or making a wild ass guess, neither of which will impress the client.
I guess I also want the doctor who will look things up if they are not sure.
However, in real life you better know where to look up the answers. After 40 years in the field and teaching, I have come to realize that there are many things that I don't know. I have the most beat up textbooks in the classroom since they ride in the back seat of my truck all summer. I give most of my tests open book and on a few they can consult with their peers. This second category results in lower grades, since there is always someone with the wrong answer but a good argument. When they complain, I tell them that there will always be dissenting opinions (in personal communications and in advertising), it is up to them to sort fact from fiction or BS. If they have not studied enough in advance or do not know where to look it up quickly, they are going to left with the option of saying nothing or making a wild ass guess, neither of which will impress the client.
I guess I also want the doctor who will look things up if they are not sure.
BostonBull
Addicted to ArboristSite
I guess I I was unclear.
I don't want a doctor to carry text books everywhere, because they don't know ANY answers.
CA are different from other certified fields. We study whatever materials we can and sit for a test thats a few hours. Most other standardized fields, doctors, electricians, linesman, etc etc Got to school from 4-8 years+! And they test out on almost every different level of knowledge you can think of. Now if a Doctor doesn't know a simple one and refers to texts, yes I would be nervous. But the case of Lymphoma that was mentioned above I believe to be much different.
CA will hopefully one day be in the upper echelon of standardized training like some of these other fields. Then there will be no argument that we are needed. Right now everyone views the test, and organization as a money pit. And most CA as Good Ol Boys.
Keep up the good work, and never stop learning!
I don't want a doctor to carry text books everywhere, because they don't know ANY answers.
CA are different from other certified fields. We study whatever materials we can and sit for a test thats a few hours. Most other standardized fields, doctors, electricians, linesman, etc etc Got to school from 4-8 years+! And they test out on almost every different level of knowledge you can think of. Now if a Doctor doesn't know a simple one and refers to texts, yes I would be nervous. But the case of Lymphoma that was mentioned above I believe to be much different.
CA will hopefully one day be in the upper echelon of standardized training like some of these other fields. Then there will be no argument that we are needed. Right now everyone views the test, and organization as a money pit. And most CA as Good Ol Boys.
Keep up the good work, and never stop learning!
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
My work offers a two dollar raise if we get our cert. I have been climbing trees for over 20 years and have lots of tree knowlege in my head. After takeing and passing the test last year, I not only got my raise, but that peice of paper has gotten me a lot more respect, even though I only gained a small emont of new knowlege. The test wasn't that hard, but does cover areas I normally wouldn't of known to much about. Take the test. I lost some of the respect I had for CA's, seeing how easy the test was, but gained a lot of respect from peers and public. Funny how that works.
BostonBull
Addicted to ArboristSite
The ISA test IS a JOKE!!!! I will always say this until they change the format.
Multipl choice on ID section?
Multipl choice on ID section?
kick in the what? Sheesh. You guys are in a slamfest.
:angry2:
:angry2:
I agree that the test and the ceu process should be firmed up, but Not "everyone", and not "most". Pride in the state test is a good thing, but the ISA's scope is different from MA's, so its cert structure is too.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
The pain will go away, give it time.
LOL...... there are also alot of Cert. Arborists that shouldnt be allowed around tree(s) let alone be allowed around chainsaws, goes both ways!! I just went through a situation regarding an arborist(BTW" he dont go up there").
Look Matt, I live in the same neck of the woods as you, CA wont really mean much in W. PA, If its for gettin a raise at work by all means, Honestly I have a very good Rep with most of the towns, municipalities, cities, etc... they know Im not a Cert. Arborist.....BUT also know that I am very knowlegeable & do good work over & above what is necessary!!! I have training/reading aides that dont even deal with PA & honestly I would go to Mass. for certification before the ISA.
ISA is a member driven organization, more members more money!! & its all about the money!! I no doubt will probably get my CA credential but only for purposes of obtaining contracts, I wont be proud!! because this hallmark is not out of pride, self betterment, care of trees, etc... its so you fit the lobbying status quo & become a good ole boy.... then your able to get contracts.
Funny Ive got more schooling, training & aerial exp. than any CA in my area, the ISA & others would have you beleive this Cert. is needed & is above & beyond what you already have!!! LOL.....
let me see: 21yrs exp, (True) LCTT Cert., 5yr apprenticeship, 2 yrs classroom instruction, pest/herb applicators license, first aide/cpr, Cdl class A all endorsements, operators Certification on just about all machinery in the tree care realm, continued education through ACRT & very familiar with ANSI regulations...................MMMmmmmm I may have missed something???? it`ll come to me after I post!! But anyway this dont mean squat to the ISA, cause their CA designation is the best & none of what you do or have done will ever measure up........unless they can get your money from such!!
LXT................ BTW, for those who wonder what a true LCTT Cert is, if your wondering you probably dont have it!! now a days the utility tree co`s just give you a multiple choice 50 question test & your certified, takes about 18-24 months LOL....
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Perfect, but the ISA will take your money too, even after all the badmouthing you have done to them. Hey, Treesseer, make note of this man, who does not toe the party line and mocks the ISA so, and see to it he never gets to be ISA certified. Traitorous fellow that he is.
I am starting to see, in the last year, to my amusement, the ISA taking many beatings here. The cracks are showing through, its all good.
WOW clearance!! having me banned from the ISA.....LOL
Look.....its a certification not a license, I just think that just because you have it doesnt make you more special or anything!! In my situation(which may be rare) I read, study & seek out new methods in my trade, I try to stay on top of the industry trends as well the pitfalls too. when someone such as myself has the training & exp. that I do!! I dont think the ISA CA is going to make me any better.
I do think this industry needs regulated, I am not a fan of the ISA I think they provide a wonderful source of education materials, but to think they provide a Certification that is better than, equal to, or just a plain neccessity to be able to work in this field is absurd!!
I truely would only get the cert because I see some areas that want you to have it to work there!! why is this? most know how I feel about the ISA & that wont change untill regulations are in place, a non climbing arborist.........but on paper they`re better than me??? LOL there are so many designations for Arborist its funny, lets see....... Non-climbing arborist, Consulting Arborist, Municipal Arborist, Utility Arborist &.....drum roll....... the all high & mighty BOARD CERTIFIED MASTER ARBORIST( spoken with reverb)
Its all about Money, yes Clearance they`ll take mine when/if I decide to take the exam, it sure isnt the NAA that I remember!! thats when an arborist was all the things mentioned above & then some, they even were required to climb can you imagine?.... the nerve of em back then wanting an Arborist to actually climb trees!!
LXT...............
Look.....its a certification not a license, I just think that just because you have it doesnt make you more special or anything!! In my situation(which may be rare) I read, study & seek out new methods in my trade, I try to stay on top of the industry trends as well the pitfalls too. when someone such as myself has the training & exp. that I do!! I dont think the ISA CA is going to make me any better.
I do think this industry needs regulated, I am not a fan of the ISA I think they provide a wonderful source of education materials, but to think they provide a Certification that is better than, equal to, or just a plain neccessity to be able to work in this field is absurd!!
I truely would only get the cert because I see some areas that want you to have it to work there!! why is this? most know how I feel about the ISA & that wont change untill regulations are in place, a non climbing arborist.........but on paper they`re better than me??? LOL there are so many designations for Arborist its funny, lets see....... Non-climbing arborist, Consulting Arborist, Municipal Arborist, Utility Arborist &.....drum roll....... the all high & mighty BOARD CERTIFIED MASTER ARBORIST( spoken with reverb)
Its all about Money, yes Clearance they`ll take mine when/if I decide to take the exam, it sure isnt the NAA that I remember!! thats when an arborist was all the things mentioned above & then some, they even were required to climb can you imagine?.... the nerve of em back then wanting an Arborist to actually climb trees!!
LXT...............
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
The nerve, I can't imagine. Your list there, non climbing arborist, consluting arborist, municipal arborist, utility arborist. They are all non climbing arborists.
I have a huge beef with non climbing utility arborists telling working utility arborists (who's training makes the ISA utility cert. look stupid) how to do thier job. When they authorize violations of established safety practices, they are going to get some one killed. And then what-sorry?
I have a huge beef with non climbing utility arborists telling working utility arborists (who's training makes the ISA utility cert. look stupid) how to do thier job. When they authorize violations of established safety practices, they are going to get some one killed. And then what-sorry?
BRCCArborist
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Just out of curiosity, for LXT and Clearance, since neither of you appear to be certified (which is fine, nothing wrong with that at all), how do you know how "easy" the exams are? They are confidential exams.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Beastmaster just told us, post on the bottom of the previous page. Of course I knew that the test couldn't be all that hard, after I met up with some ISA arborists and listened to some of thier retarded ideas. And from the crazy stuff I see them do (I mean have done cause lots of them can't climb, looks like they can barely climb out of bed). Such as plant trees under powerlines, make wildlife trees that lean over trails, private backyards, etc. How much time do you have there BRCC?
BRCCArborist
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As far as climbing goes, I have very little experience except for a climbing class I took one semester at school. Yes, I know you are probably laughing about that, but before you fall off the chair, I will tell you that I have very, very little to do with that side of arboriculture at my job. I am not a climbing arborist, nor do I claim to be. I dont even oversee that kind of thing for the most part. I mainly deal with pests, diseases, and general homeowner questions. For me, as a younger guy, the ISA Certification was the best choice I could make, cause it opened up doors for me to get the great part time job I have now, which in turn allows me a flexible schedule to finish up my degree(finally). I don't claim to know every single thing about tree care, I just focus on what I feel is my specialty. The ISA Certification shows that you have a well rounded, GENERAL knowledge of trees, and I think most other CA's will agree with this. You seem like a totally knowledgeable and experienced person, and you can bet that if and when I ever have to write a specification on takedowns or large scale pruning, I hope that I can consult with a climber like you. Until then, I just stick to what I know.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thank you Ryan, thats one of the most honest and forthright things I have heard from an ISA arborist. I am not laughing, you put your cards on the table. That is a very big thing with me. I only really know how to cut down or trim trees around powerlines. Thats it, I have little knowledge of trees otherwise.
So, you are the kind of guy I would ask advice from, if I was selecting trees or wondered what was wrong with some trees. Each to his own area. The problem I have is when arborists step outside of thier fields of knowledge. I may not be so diplomatic about that, I do not mean to offend straight shooters such as yourself.
Cheers/Jim
So, you are the kind of guy I would ask advice from, if I was selecting trees or wondered what was wrong with some trees. Each to his own area. The problem I have is when arborists step outside of thier fields of knowledge. I may not be so diplomatic about that, I do not mean to offend straight shooters such as yourself.
Cheers/Jim
BRCCArborist
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No offense taken Jim. I am very proud of my ISA Certification, and I'm glad I was able to pass the test. I recommend it to anyone. But I'm still looking forward to getting the hands on experience over the years like veterans of the industry such as yourself.
Thanks
Thanks
mattfr12
The Bulldog
i climb trees 6 days a week year round mon-sat. only reason i want the cert is a raise at work. its like 2-3$ an hour.
I totally disagree with you clearance and lxt on the need for CA to be able to climb. I come from an industrial forestry background (a Registered Professional Forester). When I designed logging road and cutblocks, I didn't need to know all the intricacies of falling or running an excavator. All I said was this is where the road goes and those are the trees that will be cut, make it so.
Same for a CA. When I make a prescription, I'm not telling the climber how to do the work, only what work needs to be done. Big difference. I may tell him how to do the work, but that would only be within a training scenario.
Finally, as someone else said, the CA is only a certification. As such, it has value only if a customer perceives it to have value (as the holder of a couple of expensive but now worthless certifications). Around here, the certification obviously has value, because the municipalities require a CA to do tree assessment and arborist reports (not someone who is a very good climber).
The ISA has done a very good marketing job, by getting the public to believe that only a CA has the qualifications to take care of their trees. Not the first time the public has had their attitudes defined by marketing. But if the public believes that a CA is required, then the CA certification has value.
Same for a CA. When I make a prescription, I'm not telling the climber how to do the work, only what work needs to be done. Big difference. I may tell him how to do the work, but that would only be within a training scenario.
Finally, as someone else said, the CA is only a certification. As such, it has value only if a customer perceives it to have value (as the holder of a couple of expensive but now worthless certifications). Around here, the certification obviously has value, because the municipalities require a CA to do tree assessment and arborist reports (not someone who is a very good climber).
The ISA has done a very good marketing job, by getting the public to believe that only a CA has the qualifications to take care of their trees. Not the first time the public has had their attitudes defined by marketing. But if the public believes that a CA is required, then the CA certification has value.
Well, I have the arborist cert. study guide & if the questions in there reflect the ones on the test then it is easy, the only part I would need to really study on would be fertilizers & application of chemical treatments, I also know many Arb`s that took the test through the Union I used to be a member of, test was through the Pen-Del Chapter.
What do you mean me & clearance arent Certified? This is exactly what I mean, did you read my previous posts, Not Certified.....Horse s*&t !!! Not ISA certified....... But certified in every other facet of the field! which is more than most ISA arb`s I know have!!
Funny how all the guys from my union at the time went to get their cert. were union stewards & officers, even they said the only reason they got the cert. was so the inspectors would think they were more knowlegeable..... was kinda a joke amongst all of us, & funnier yet.... when they needed help on some big trim or Removal...... they`d ask for me!!
I would make it known the cert. arb`s needed my help, which usually meant they were helping me as I`d get stuck doing the whole damn thing anyway, me & other guys just for fun would make our own cert. out of our kids crayons bring em in & give it to the GF, We figured it was just as good!!!
LXT...................
