Been made safety man.......

[treeseer]

There is always other ways to get in the tree with out spurs. And really get tired of all those people that think the only thing Line Clearance guys are hacks.

treeblitzer, thanks for joining in. I agree, but like all corners of the industry a few bad actors with bad attitudes can give the rest a bad name.

Can you guys give Rygel some tips on providing saferty training to his crews?

 

[tophopper]

out of my league? Well I aint a utility guy, but hardly think its outta my league. Never planned on saying throwline wasnt conductive, but most anyone with little experience can throw accuratly to 40ft. I would position myself so I wasnt throwing into the wires, like standing under them and throwing away from them into the tree.


Oh and also, you need not be "an ISA guy" to use a throwline. Admit it clearance, climb out from under your rock, and open your eyes man. obvoiusly there alternatives to gaffing everything. You painted a worst case scenerio, I doubt thats the case everytime. Sure there may be situations where gaffing IS the safest way, but because of your unwillingness to listen to the times a changin, in your opinion, thats every tree you come accross.

Say what you will, but your old school ways and hard headed mentality will be exactly what keeps you from advancing in our industry. You claim to be the "clearance" expert and as far as I can tell you ALWAYS will be.

Have fun, good luck, and stay safe my brother.

No hard feelings eh?

 

[Tree Machine]

Be nice, everybody. Safety IS #1, as I'm sure we can all agree.

I have a question, and this is not to badmouth using spikes around powerlines, but we have some knowledgable authorities online here. This is a pure safety question:

If you were in a tree and spiked in, supposing there were an accident where a limb was cut, hit the wires and energized the tree, would the current not follow the path of least resistance? I see this path as being up through the spikes, into your legs, through your balls and into your heart. I reckon this could happen with straight rubber-soled boots and these rubber-palmed gloves we use, but I'm just curious...? Maybe the current would go down the tree straight to ground and not bother you....? I really don't know. If spikes are required then are they deemed safe to the user in that occupational setting?

By the way, Rygel, congratulations on your new duties. Have they given you a budget for PPE purchase?

 

[Rygel]

Wow - we need a safety guy here to clear up this thread so we don't get a "ooh yeah we'll meet me here or there and I'll use my spikes on your head"!(LOL) anyway thanks so far on the safety posts- I've put in that i want to learn to nonspike climb one day but at this time we spike any tree we have to climb. Never had an issue yet- I have just got our supervisor to let me order a porta wrap and pulley (no one has used one in our company before) so we can atleast do the nicer yards without putting holes everywhere- so i'd say thats step one. But he also worries about time consuming with it.
Other than that I saw a OSHA book today that I'm gonna start going through finding job related issues to start with.
TREE MACHINE: I'm sure I'll have to work all that in slowly but it will come! (I hope)!
Yeah we got nailed by OSHA not to long ago and hurt the crews involved bonus but that was all. I think they were around $10,000 but got reduced alittle. We had a 2nd time no hard hat, no leg chaps and a no monkey suit (harness) in the bucket -fine. So It really pissed or supervisor off and the thing is the same crew still does this!

 

[Tree Machine]

Now that you're in charge, the violations just might come back your direction. This is the reward you get for being the man in the seat of responsibility.

You're now a leader. Some will resist this, some will despise it, and the good workers will just follow the rules and make your life easy.

Set your ground rules with the team, and base it on ANSI and OSHA so they can't backtalk you for creating stupid rules. You all discuss these ground rules, make one another accountable for one another and hope they comply. Compliance is your big hurdle.

After this group agreement, three strikes and you're out, or upon another OSHA violation, the offending dude is out. It really can't be more fair than that.

That's leading by threat of punishment. You may try positive reinforcement, like 'two weeks of full compliance, you get a new Peltor FM radio muffs, ear protective forestry helmet, or new chainsaw pants, or spiffy new safety glasses. Make new PPE the reward. It's magnificently cheaper than OSHA violations.

 

[Crofter]

Rygel you have been given a very difficult job. In a way you are caught in the middle and if you are doing your job thoroughly you will be often hated by both company and workers. I have been on health and safety both as a workers rep and also management rep. Some companies only want to cover their buts with token observance of regulations and really want to "just get her done!' If they do not give you the clout you need you will get very discouraged. Trying to keep workers from working stupid is not easy either. If you stick it out you will probably get over trying to be a nice guy.

 

[Tree Machine]

There's some valuable wisdom. I have a feeling Crofter is calling it how it is.

 

[Treeblitzer]

Rygel,You need to talk to the utility and see if they can give you all the info. on the types of lines,what voltage,fuses,switches and any other thing that you might think of. Dont be scared to ask some line men questions,You might think that they will look down on you for it ,but dont let it bother you.All linemen have to abide by a min. seperation chart also.

 

[Tree Machine]

Hey Blitzer, welcome to the site! We're glad you jumped in on this thread. 25 years in line clearance, Yow! We're glad to have your experience here

 

[Treeblitzer]

Now I`m not saying that I have never screwed up like taking out a 3 phase or never getting zapped a little bit but I still got all my fingers & toes. But really Line Clearance has been good to me,I have seen alot of crazy stuff that Linemen do that just doesn`t seem to smart.I have worked in the mountain`s doing walkin work where you have to park ,grab all your gear and hike for a couple miles.I dont miss that at all,Im working in town now doing customer contacts,I have 4 crews to keep track of and all the head aches that go along with it.

 

[Treeblitzer]

Rygel, Do you guys work off of circuit maps? If so they should have all the info on them like voltage for the primarys,where they come out of the sub station,all fuses and switches.Ask your Utility contact if he has any video`s on stuff,There is 1 video thats called Baltimore Fault if he has that 1 you should show it to your guys and see if they still want to do Lines.The main thing is that you need to spend alot of your time with all the diff. guys and make sure they understand and comply completely.

 

[clearance]

Rygel, Do you guys work under assurance of no reclose protections (a.n.r.p.), maybe you know it as single shot? Here when guys are working on a circuit, that circuit is switched to single shot, so after one line fault is detected it shuts down right away. We have documented meetings every morning (mandatory) even the flag girl is in on it, names, date, circuit# power co. guys name # and so on. Tophopper, every utility man in this province climbs with spurs, they advance or not based on other reasons. I have no problem with it, why not rattle someones cage at B.C. Hydro? Many I.S.A. certified vegetation supervisors work there, not one of them has ever said anything to me about spurs, or topping trees. They are a big outfit that takes great pains to be p.c., they are easy to get to on the net, ask them, I am sure you could get a better answer than I can give. Tree Machine, electricity takes ALL paths to ground, if something goes towards the line, cut it off, get rid of it. Treeblitz, iv'e put out the power as well, b.f.d., like the hydro guy told me, as long as everyone is o.k.. Treeseer, I am a bad actor, a bad man and a terrible hack with an appalling attitude but I kept my boss happy, B.C. Hydro happy and most important I got the clearance and cut down the garbage. Cheers.

 

[Tree Machine]

Cheers, then!

 

[Treeblitzer]

There is alot of diff. between the u.s. and our northern brothers . Down here in this Utility everything is done hot,unless there is no possible way to do it safetly.In the past 20yrs I can only remember maybe a half dozen times we have had a power kill or the lines booted.The Utility pays us to work them hot so thats what we do.

 

[clearance]

Treeblitz-we always work hot unless it is something crazy. What I mean by single shot is that when the power is on, a branch cross-phases the three phase, a tree is burning on the line, etc., What happens is that a fault is detected at the substation and the power goes out. It doesn't help you though, all it means is that if you are still alive it won't re-energize. You have to get this set up before you work on the circuit. You call the guy (person in charge or p.i.c.) at the power control center and request it (a.n.r.p.) he gives it to you and you have to repeat it back (it is recorded). "This is buddy at hack tree serv. I understand that as of 7:54am I hold an a.n.r.p. on 25f52 (circuit name, 25kv line, feeder, 52 is the unique number of that circuit) from Bird road to dog lane" Then you can work, if there is a fault the phone starts ringing from the control center. If you did something wrong, now is the time to c.y.a. because someone will be coming out a.s.a.p. asking questions. When the line is killed or in a storm cleanup there are still forms to fill out from the lineman who will be on scene. I always filled them out when I was the company rep., when something bad happens or even a friendly visit, the Hydro wants to see this document.

 

[Rygel]

We work everything hot. Heard of them shutting it down once but never seen it- We did have a time a guy put the power out in a right-of-way so we busted butt and got the job done by crashing everything before they got there to fix it.

All that happens in the morning is the foremans get there list of address' and or pole numbers (we have to meet a certain amount of work to be productive for each truck) We dont do it by mileage or foot. We go by trims/removals/brush.

And no when we do triple phase there is no adjustments, we get what we have from the company. But as far as maps and stuff i may look into all that and put them up. So before a crew goes out they can look at the lines in the area and make adjustments safely!

 

[clearance]

That setup sounds kind of hack, if you don't mind me saying so, no offence meant Rygel, here it is really picky. If you accidentally contact the line (like bounce some branches of it) you are supposed to stop and call control....Yeah right. I hope you have a dedicated emergency phone# to call at the power co. at least. There are tests you have to renew every two years after the two year program you have to complete before you can work without supervision etc.

 

[daveyclimber]

There is alot of diff. between the u.s. and our northern brothers . Down here in this Utility everything is done hot,unless there is no possible way to do it safetly.In the past 20yrs I can only remember maybe a half dozen times we have had a power kill or the lines booted.The Utility pays us to work them hot so thats what we do.

Ding Ding Ding , and what do we have behind door number three Johnny ? Yep I have 10 year experience , and have experienced the same .

 

[stihlatit]

Hey guys i am out of water on this subject so please let me know. Are you guys with the hydro or doing trees on contract for the hydro. Reason I ask is the other day I was watching a fascinating show regarding our Ontario Hydro guys. What they were doing was claimed to be volunteer work and not mandatory. There were about 4 crews of two men each with one helicopter dropping them on top of the hydro towers to inspect and change any lightning srike damaged wire or parts. Helicopter had a big ramp on the side and could only approach the tower from one direction. Makes it tough to fly the chopper with precision if there is a little wind. They now do it that way for speed and the tower guys don't have to do the humungous climb. Looked like a real adrenaline rush to me.

Arnie

 

[jmack]

nice

Ok- so I'm going to be "the Safety Guy" for our company. We are a small 12-14 man crew doing powerline tree services for our local power company. They have never really had a safety guy before and only doing "tailgate" meetings when our parent company forces it during saftey week. We have done bucket rescue and stuff like that but nothing on minor issues.
I guess what I'm really asking is , is there any books specificaly for tree service safety? Any Idea would be helpful ! I've searched the site alittle but seen nothing on dedicated to this.
I'm gonna use some of the injury forums for some of the topics and try to find pictures so some of our -um not so bright guys can get the idea sometimes!
I'm sure that a few replies would keep me able to do a month or two of topics due to them never really having anything like this before! Thanks!

Hey Rygel congrats. A book that is good is safety tailgate meeting by tcia there are different topics and it really is a easy meeting 10mins with out discussion. Make sure to document and date these with everyone in attendance guests included. Make yourself some forms for onsite topics that come up. you should create a company safety manual. as you grow and submit bids you can included this in the bid package, somebody mentioned tcia model company safety program, those guys know safety, if your company joins tcia you can choose to recieve it.be ready for osha know what you will do and how your staff will react, and document everything keep us posted