Benifits of a shorter bar

[1953greg]

"So I guess my question is what is the benifit of running a smaller Bar, is there a formular to figure out the diffrence in chain speeds for diffrent length bars, some people on the thread even said that if I was going to get a second bar get a 24 or 26 inch bar(I am not sure the saw would run a 24 or 26 inch bar) husky does say it will run a 24inch bar (some place other they say 20 inch)

I am cutting 10 cords a year of firewood ad some small clearing (for a garage)on 40 acres of land. I am just confused please help"

judge,
as you can see/read, the bar length is a very personal choice. depends on circumstances, not the least of which is a personal statue.
simply put, if the 18" will serve your needs then there is no use to have the extra 2". if 20" is needed then it is needed.
almost all the loggers around here use 24" bars and 95% of the time that is enough. but thats for cutting logs (mostly 20-30" bhd) off of stumps w/ 8-14" buttress. firewood is another ballgame.

use the shortest that will get the job done and you will be ahead at the end of the day.

 

[computeruser]

Hi,

there are, well there used to be, some big trees there. Much bigger than we usually get to see here in Europe. I have wondered the same thing but the other way around - it seems many people here in Germany have a "phobia" of bars that measure more than 20". I do use a 24" myself but only for cutting stumps down low.

People here worry about putting a 24" bar on a 460, the Stihl recommendation for a 460 is either 18" or 20"! The most common lengths for most saws here are 38 to 45 cm long (15" to 18"). The recommended bars for a 660 here are only either 20" or 24".

I find it all quite strange...

Bye

Interesting. Are there simply no trees large enough to benefit from larger bars over there, or does it come down to differences in preference and technique? I think that most of the logging in the midwest of forest trees could be handled with a 20" bar. It is the open-grown and suburban trees that seem to require bigger bars, especially for flush-cutting the stump.

Here is a stump from a single tree, with a Dolmar 7900 and Makita 6401 sitting on it, both wearing 20" bars. No way that this was going to be cut with a 15" bar!

 

[Monkeyhanger]

Interesting. Are there simply no trees large enough to benefit from larger bars over there, or does it come down to differences in preference and technique?

hi,

there certainly are some big trees, at least we consider them big but they are few and far between. I myself have never come across a tree that I couldn't drop with a 20" bar. The 24" I only really use to get the stumps low without too much playing about. I don't actually know anybody else that uses such a "long" bar! My 346XPG normally has a 13" bar on it!

Where I live there are mostly mixed Oak, Ash and Beech forests with a few Silver Birch and other "hardwoods" as well as the evergreen woods and forests that were planted for the (long dead) mining industry and the natural evergreens up in the higher areas of the Harz Mountains (but they are in a National Park and "no-go" for mere mortals like me).

All in all nothing that an American would consider to be big I suppose. It's similar in Norway and Finnland too, lots of small trees and maybe a few big ones.

Bye

 

[Bermie]

I suppose the choice of bar length depends a lot on the work situations you have to deal with.
I like to use a short bar, 16-18" it gives me the ability to select various cut sequences depending on the size, location and lean of the tree, to get it down safely and effectively (I'm not a very big tree surgeon!). Granted most of what I cut isn't much bigger than about 36 - 40" diameter. I recently dismantled a white cedar, right on a boundary, tucked up against a stone wall, palm trees all around it. A big ass bar wouldn't have done me any good there, no room to manouvre.
BUT once that tree is on the ground, it would have been nice to have a big bar to cut up the trunk and stump, note to self...

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

whats wrong with you ppl and huge bars.... im running my 353 on 13" and it works fine...

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=30994&highlight=long+bars+full+wraps

Run your 13" bar on a 32" dbh tree on a 45 degree slope all from one side and then ask that question again....

 

[rahtreelimbs]

A 13" bar on a 346 would be considered a toy in my parts..............but then...........whatever trips your trigger!!!

 

[SawTroll]

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=30994&highlight=long+bars+full+wraps

Run your 13" bar on a 32" dbh tree on a 45 degree slope all from one side and then ask that question again....

You are of course right that if is all about the conditions which we cut under - never needed more than an 18" bar here, even in the slopes....
:greenchainsaw:

 

[smokechase II]

safety

This probably has little application to those viewing that are from locales with flatter ground and smaller trees.
But a longer bar is often a safety item.
Make all your cuts from one side of the tree when felling or the uphill side of the log when bucking. That deals with placing yourself in an unacceptable area.
Limiting your exposure time in the danger zone also means one cut, not two or three to do the same thing.

Weight and power loss and amount of teeth to sharpen and expense are all issues relating to bar and chain length.
Balance is not. Unless you do all your limbing at waist level with something heavier than a modern saw.

{I remember being taught center face bore cuts, (to get up to triple bar length falling), back in the early 1970's and it was certainly old school back then. That may be regarded as a special Scandinavian technique elsewhere, but it is so obvious that I'd think that it was used all over.}

 

[Monkeyhanger]

But a longer bar is often a safety item.

Hi,

a shorter bar can also be a safety item!

When I'm cutting up the crown of a hardwood tree I want the smallest bar possible to do that job. A longer bar means you have more chance that the bar tip will be somewhere you don't want it to be -> kickback! Kickback with my 346XP +13" is comical compared to the 460 with the 24" bar.

Bye

 

[smokechase II]

bar length west coast

Monkeyhanger:
In the Western US and Canada, a 28" bar for most commercial cutters is usually the minimum.
An 046 will handle a 32 or 36 with skip or semi skip chain just fine.

 

[smokechase II]

safety again

A shorter bar when up in a tree can very much be a safety feature.

On the ground, I've found and seen that there is a problem going back and forth between different bar lengths. A cutter gets used to one size then switches lengths, particularly true when going to longer bars, and gets in trouble with the tip.

I don't believe a longer bar represents a danger limbing with our technique.
We limb generally with the end of the bar, about 2"-6" in from the tip. The longer bar can mean less fatigue with less bending and hence some safety there. I've seen a couple Swedish videos where the limbing technique was to cut as close to the powerhead as possible. With that style of cutting, yes a longer bar tip would be all over the place.

It can be a problem when moving around in tight quarters. Pulling the saw back to start another cut can be both physically taxing and an opportunity for an undisciplined operator, who doesn't stop or wait for the chain to stop, to get a kick-back.

 

[Monkeyhanger]

Monkeyhanger:
An 046 will handle a 32 or 36 with skip or semi skip chain just fine.

Hi,

I know that, but here I could wrap a 36" inch bar around most of the trees I see...

Remember it is blis who has problems believing that you can actually need long bars, not me.

Bye

 

[SawTroll]

Hi,

a shorter bar can also be a safety item!

When I'm cutting up the crown of a hardwood tree I want the smallest bar possible to do that job. A longer bar means you have more chance that the bar tip will be somewhere you don't want it to be ...

Agree! :rockn:

...but I don't like the 13" bars - 15" is what I mainly use when limbing.

When limbing birches most cuts are deliberate cuts at one or two limbs, "sweeping" the limbs off with the saw is not practical imo.

Spruce is another story, but I don't cut much of those.

 

[smokechase II]

more stuff

Hey the last tree I cut down was a 45" snag. Did it with a 28 just cause it was not a high risk and I like to use a shorter bar to stay current with match cutting.

One thing I should mention, with most of the bars now-a-days, lighter 50 gauge bars that is. A longer bar on a good powerhead like an 046 can mean an increased kick-back force.

Heavier bars, on some saws when cutting vertically, can mean reduced kick-back energy. But generally going from a 20 to a 28 can mean that the longer lever arm imparts more power.

So another caveat there.

 

[John Ellison]

Some more reasons that fallers on the west coast actually need longer bars are;
Say the slope you are working on is 45 degrees, but at the tree you are going to fall, the ground is so broken up that the stump height on the uphill side you are working on is 2' but on the off or lower side it is 15' to the ground. So the only way you could reach the far side easily is with a longer bar. Otherwise it is a time consuming spring board process. When you can't see the offside of your tree it is a lot better to have too much bar than not enough to keep from wedging set back trees.
Limbing is not done from the ground. Because of the broken up ground the tree limbs will be unreachable in several spots from the ground, so the faller is wearing corks/caulks and walking the log. The nose heavy saw is better.
The longer bar is worth its weight in gold if you are bucking windfalls on steep ground that have came down thru standing timber or any of the many times you wish you could stand a little farther away.

 

[John Ellison]

:biggrinbounce2: But, I agree. More and more I am appreciating a smaller bar. Less is better if you dont need more.

 

[blis]

.....
I don't believe a longer bar represents a danger limbing with our technique.
We limb generally with the end of the bar, about 2"-6" in from the tip. The longer bar can mean less fatigue with less bending and hence some safety there. I've seen a couple Swedish videos where the limbing technique was to cut as close to the powerhead as possible. With that style of cutting, yes a longer bar tip would be all over the place.
.....

limbing with short bar and "scandinavian" technique saves a lot of trouble and strenght, since you can just lay down the saw on tree and pull it along while keeping all the weight on tree, instead of your arms... it might be a different story on hilly landscape and with bigger trees and bars... but atleast here short bar is best for limbing and felling...

 

[smokechase II]

limbing

I should back up and say that with larger limbs, (6" - 15" dia), all of us can find ourselves at least occasionally 'resting' the saw in that manner while limbing.
Mostly on 1" - 3" limbs you're moving too fast to get a real break.


Monkeyhanger:
With your ability to wrap a 36" bar around a tree, you don't even need a saw.

By the way, this John Ellison guy is a bit unusual. He's seen life from a couple different points of view. I search for his posts on occasion just to see what he has to say. That logging he did in Alaska was as big a deal as anyone here has ever even seen.

 

[M.R.]

Maybe a local or NW thing.

The way I'm built or put together a 28" bar fits.
Standing square/up-right on a level surface [seldon seen]
the tip clears the end of my boot aprox. 2"

Three decades or so ago this is the way I was taught to fit
a saw to the operator. I'm used to it and it works for me.
Often when we get secure footing you want to cut all you can.
Tried a 32" and hated it, just wasn't used to it, kept getting into the rock & dirt & throwing the chain when limbing. [maybe takes a tighter ajustment than what I am used to on the 28"]

I even run a 24" bar on a 026pro it may dog it down a little?
Its there when I need it and I can produce more not being
humped over like a monkey on a coconut.

 

[Monkeyhanger]

I can produce more not being
humped over like a monkey on a coconut.

I'm just trying to imagine what it looks like when the monkey is wearing chaps and a bright orange helmet....:hmm3grin2orange:


Bye