Best medium sized saw?

[Crofter]

Vibration

Mike you are correct about the danger of vibration. I suffer considerable symptoms of vibratory white hand. I have recently had a 372 modified and being as objective as I can, find no increase in vibration. The reaction to the reciprocating forces of the piston rod assembly in the x axis as well as that caused by the crank counterweights in the y axis should not be affected by the modification. Torsional vibration pulses from power strokes actually seem to be less because most of your cutting is at higher rpm where those pulses tend to be absorbed by the saw mass. Why do you believe there should be more vibration with a mildly modified saw.

Frank

 

[Gypo Logger]

Quote Crofter: Torsional vibration pulses from power strokes actually seem to be less :
Hi Frank, I know you're pushing fifty, but are things getting that bad? If the viagra is getting too expensive, than try the generic brand Mycoxafailin.
John

 

[Crofter]

Hell John I aint pushing 50, I'm dragging it! I didnt say how I got my vibratory white hand symptoms did I? All I can say is different strokes for different folks.
Mike; you said you wondered for sure if the light goes ou when you close the fridge door; I could make a suggestion...........

Frank

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Frank, it reminds me of my Grandfather, seems he thought God turned the light on and off for him every time he used the bathroom.
So I asked my Grandmother about this and she said," oh don't worry about gramps, he's getting a bit senile. He's been pissing in the fridge again."
John

 

[Crofter]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
I just make them up, why?

What if both saws are maintained exactly the same?

Ok, so you and rb contend that you can take more air and gas mixture, at a richer concentration, compress it into a smaller area, ignite it to make a bigger explosion in the cylinder, expell the gas through a bigger hole making a louder noise, and all while using no more gasoline and having no more vibration. That's some feat!

Mike
I'm sure you feel your logic about vibration and saw modification should be entirely self-evident, but some things are not so easily explained as they appear. From a limited perspective the waving of the tree branches could appear to cause the wind to blow. You have to be careful about seemingly obvious explanations!

If you do some research into the theory of engine balancing you will find that much of the inherent imbalance of a single cylinder engine is independant of output. You could even drive it as an air compressor and it would have the same imbalance due to reciprocating and oscillating masses altho absorbing energy instead of producing.
The increased forces from higher combustion pressures are contained within the engine and do not contribute much to vibration on the x or y axis. The same way that pulling up on your bootstraps has no effect on your indicated weight on the bathroom scale. Now in the next aspect of vibration you are partially correct; that extra output from burning a BIGGER charge (modifications) does cause reactionary forces in a torsional motion of the cylinder and crankcase mass(every action has an equal and opposite reaction), but as I pointed out earlier, modifying a saw usually brings the operating range up to higher rpms which make the torsional fluctuations less noticeable( the frequency is increased but amplitude decreases). Ask one of the byke enthusiasts here why a Harley has more vibration than a rice rocket.


Food for though perhaps,

Frank

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Every good modified two stroke I ever saw, wether it's a boat, a cycle, a saw, a gokart, did three things: made the neighbors call the police, shook the ground I was standing on, and went like the devil.

 

[Crofter]

Now Mike I really am suggesting you can remember things that never happened! Would you explain how that boat shook the ground yoou were standing on! And only a 2 cycle!
Back to your statement that insists a modified saw will give the user more vibration damage. Will you explain how you know it will be so.

Frank

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by Crofter
Now Mike I really am suggesting you can remember things that never happened! Would you explain how that boat shook the ground yoou were standing on! And only a 2 cycle!
Back to your statement that insists a modified saw will give the user more vibration damage. Will you explain how you know it will be so.

Frank

When you are at shore, and a 600 pound boat with two modified 2500 cc 2 stroke outboards pegs the throttle, you bet you can feel it!

As to how one could know about vibration, other than personal experience, one would have to send a modified saw to a facility that does this kind of testing. In fact, you'd have to send in enough modified saws and non-modifed saws to get an accurate statistical repersentation.
I don't think its something you can just feel. Can you tell the difference in vibration between the front and rear handles of any saw? Just that little bit makes a huge difference in vibration ratings.
I will admit its only intuition driving my opinion on this.

 

[rbtree]

How many modded saws do you run? My 11th is on its way from the new master, ehp, a 357.

No more vibration, appx equal gas mileage, per wood cut.....


Sorry fella, but that's the word here. You believe what you want.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

We have established that vibration is not something that can be measured by feel, yet RB can tell us, with the greatest of confidence, that he can.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Rocky, you can't bs a bser.
I first said I thought there was more vibration, then crofter made the point that maybe there isn't, to which I said maybe there isn't but to me it seems that there would have to be.
Then RB said there definately isn't.
Then you said it doesn't matter if there is or isn't.

If we can't turn a topic inside out and talk about every little detail of a subject, and be insulting while we do it, then this wouldn't be Arboristsite anymore.

And for the record, I like hotsaws.

 

[Oregon_Rob]

What about this?

What about a 346 or a 357 with a 16” bar and just opening up the muffler?

 

[Crofter]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
We have established that vibration is not something that can be measured by feel, yet RB can tell us, with the greatest of confidence, that he can.

Mike; You say above that "WE" have established that vibration is not something that can be measured by feel. Who is WE? Do you have a mouse in your pocket that makes you plural?

Frank

 

[Crofter]

Oregon Rob;

The 346 and 357 are amazing saws for the size of the package. Opening the muffler will give you at least 15% measured reduction in cut times with no apparent drawbacks aside from noise. They are undisputably loud after. Some people will run a saw with no hearing protection but there are darn few who would run one wih opened exhaust and no protection. Modifying after exhaust work can give another similar gain.

Frank

 

[Oregon_Rob]

Frank,
That was kind of my point, the discussion has been about modified saws or stock, it seems like a good in-between and I was surprised that it wasn’t mentioned. I have a 372 which I opened up the muffler.
Do you guys ever run into any problems with the increased noise?

By problems, I meant working in urban areas? For me on the farm, it doesn’t matter.

 

[Crofter]

Rob.
My neighbour on one side is into snow machines, bykes and works for a pole line / Tree service. On the other side is the community grave yard (scouts honour) I do have to make sure not to run saws during a graveside service. Lol.

Frank.

If you do modify a 372 muffler there is a quick and easy way of almost instantly reversing the operation for special occasions. Not like a vasectomy?

 

[NebClimber]

How does one "open up" the muffler?

Steven

 

[Crofter]

Opening Muffler 365 Husky

The opening in the front support is what I added to the original hooded opening on top of muffler. Design thanks to K. Dunn.

Frank

 

[Crofter]

Sorry about the size of that. It was small on my computer.

Frank

 

[Oregon_Rob]

I did the same thing to my 372.