Best Mini Skid Steer for tree work

[HappyTreesLLC]

I am new to this forum. Hello to all!
For last couple of hours I’ve been reading this thread. Wow, it is awesome to hear from all of you. Your experience is great input.

So let me summarize. Primary use and advantages of mini skid-steer are:
1. ability to work in hard to access area restricted by width (some think like 48” gate)
2. low ground pressure – under 10PSI loaded
The secondary benefits of mini skid steer are:
1. low fuel consumption
2. light weight – easy to transport
3. easy and fast get in and out
4. wide variety of attachments
5. lesser cost comparing to larger machines
6. fast learning curve for new users

I just sold my Kubota B7800HST. She was with me since 2005. She was excellent choice until now. To handle bigger logs for resale value I moved into Kubota R420. But I always wanted to get second small ground machine to get into tight spaces.

Technically we should call them mini track (not truck) loaders.

Mini track loared VS. mini skid steer –
Skid steer have much higher ground pressure so it will teat law. To me mini skid steer is pointless.

Mini track loader VS. mini articulating wheel loader –
Even ZAHN has 12 PSI pressure, you can lower by adding more tires but then you loosing narrow accessibility. Gehl 140 with empty weight of 3,845 lb is the deal backer. So unless some one comes out with mini articulating loader weight under 3,000 lb and width under 42” – loader is out of competition.

Mini track loader VS. Cat226B –
I’d say same reason as Cat226B VS. Cat272D, or Cat272 VS. Cat527, or Cat527 VS. Cat545C and so on and on ….
So we not going to compare Dingo Vs. Cat 552.
You got my point.

Fuel Type. Personally to me, all my equipment are diesel, so I am not even considering gasoline engine. The complication to have extra fuel type is not acceptable. It will take only ones some entry level guy will use straight gas in 4-cycle engine. Rule of my company : if its not diesel – its chain saw. I am not allowed to carry any NOT mixed gasoline in my trucks.

New VS. used. One of my business associates told me rule of thumb: If you going to use some machine 3 days (or more) per week – you buy new. 2 days or less – used. In today financial situation, with this low interest rate I’d go new. Every cash I have going toward my payments for toys I got last 3-4 years. They are 10-12%. My new purchases are 5-6%. No brainer.

As far as I understand, we came to following competitors:
36” gate capable:
Dingo 525 narrow
DW 650 narrow
Vermeer S650TX
42” gate
Vermeer S800TX
Dingo 525 wide
DW 650 wide
They are all diesel models from companies who stand by their products. So I am going to judge by following criteria: Ground pressure empty, Tipping Capacity.
In order of MY preference.
36” gate capable:
Vermeer S650TX – 3.6PSI; 1890 LB
DW 650 narrow – 4.7 PSI; 1860 LB
Dingo 525 narrow – 5.2PSI; 1580 LB
42” gate
Vermeer S800TX – 3.6PSI; 2400LB
DW 650 wide – 3.7PSI; 1860LB
Dingo 525 wide – 3.4PSI; 1580 LB

Now I just need to justify if I need 36” or 42” gate capability. I had many equipment bought from Vermeer North East dealership. This mini track loader will be my 5th band new purchase from them. The machines Vermeer build are highest quality in industry, the customer service before, during and after purchase is excellent. The resale value on Vermeer equipment is holding strong.
So my vote is Vermeer ether S650TX or S800TX.

Thanks for reading my looo…. ooong story.

 

[Pelorus]

"Thanks for reading my looo…. ooong story."

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for sharing your observations. Good to hear that your experience with your local Vermeer dealer has been positive. Best of luck with whichever model you end up buying.
Threads like this one were instrumental in my decision to purchase an SK650. No regrets.

 

[MarquisTree]

I am new to this forum. Hello to all!
For last couple of hours I’ve been reading this thread. Wow, it is awesome to hear from all of you. Your experience is great input.

So let me summarize. Primary use and advantages of mini skid-steer are:
1. ability to work in hard to access area restricted by width (some think like 48” gate)
2. low ground pressure – under 10PSI loaded
The secondary benefits of mini skid steer are:
1. low fuel consumption
2. light weight – easy to transport
3. easy and fast get in and out
4. wide variety of attachments
5. lesser cost comparing to larger machines
6. fast learning curve for new users

I just sold my Kubota B7800HST. She was with me since 2005. She was excellent choice until now. To handle bigger logs for resale value I moved into Kubota R420. But I always wanted to get second small ground machine to get into tight spaces.

Technically we should call them mini track (not truck) loaders.

Mini track loared VS. mini skid steer –
Skid steer have much higher ground pressure so it will teat law. To me mini skid steer is pointless.

Mini track loader VS. mini articulating wheel loader –
Even ZAHN has 12 PSI pressure, you can lower by adding more tires but then you loosing narrow accessibility. Gehl 140 with empty weight of 3,845 lb is the deal backer. So unless some one comes out with mini articulating loader weight under 3,000 lb and width under 42” – loader is out of competition.

Mini track loader VS. Cat226B –
I’d say same reason as Cat226B VS. Cat272D, or Cat272 VS. Cat527, or Cat527 VS. Cat545C and so on and on ….
So we not going to compare Dingo Vs. Cat 552.
You got my point.

Fuel Type. Personally to me, all my equipment are diesel, so I am not even considering gasoline engine. The complication to have extra fuel type is not acceptable. It will take only ones some entry level guy will use straight gas in 4-cycle engine. Rule of my company : if its not diesel – its chain saw. I am not allowed to carry any NOT mixed gasoline in my trucks.

New VS. used. One of my business associates told me rule of thumb: If you going to use some machine 3 days (or more) per week – you buy new. 2 days or less – used. In today financial situation, with this low interest rate I’d go new. Every cash I have going toward my payments for toys I got last 3-4 years. They are 10-12%. My new purchases are 5-6%. No brainer.

As far as I understand, we came to following competitors:
36” gate capable:
Dingo 525 narrow
DW 650 narrow
Vermeer S650TX
42” gate
Vermeer S800TX
Dingo 525 wide
DW 650 wide
They are all diesel models from companies who stand by their products. So I am going to judge by following criteria: Ground pressure empty, Tipping Capacity.
In order of MY preference.
36” gate capable:
Vermeer S650TX – 3.6PSI; 1890 LB
DW 650 narrow – 4.7 PSI; 1860 LB
Dingo 525 narrow – 5.2PSI; 1580 LB
42” gate
Vermeer S800TX – 3.6PSI; 2400LB
DW 650 wide – 3.7PSI; 1860LB
Dingo 525 wide – 3.4PSI; 1580 LB

Now I just need to justify if I need 36” or 42” gate capability. I had many equipment bought from Vermeer North East dealership. This mini track loader will be my 5th band new purchase from them. The machines Vermeer build are highest quality in industry, the customer service before, during and after purchase is excellent. The resale value on Vermeer equipment is holding strong.
So my vote is Vermeer ether S650TX or S800TX.

Thanks for reading my looo…. ooong story.

Did you know DW is running a special on the 650? $20k with a bucket. I think thats about $6k less then the S650tx. could be a bit off on that number havent gotten the written quote from Vermeer yet

 

[MarquisTree]

"Thanks for reading my looo…. ooong story."

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for sharing your observations. Good to hear that your experience with your local Vermeer dealer has been positive. Best of luck with whichever model you end up buying.
Threads like this one were instrumental in my decision to purchase an SK650. No regrets.

I just tried out my first mini, DW 650 wide aggressive tracks, with a branch manager on it.
I will say I was very impressed with what it would do, liked the solid steel body (no plastic covers to break)
Has anyone broken a diesel or hyd tank on the DW SK650? Seemed like the only thing that could be damaged.
The branch manager looked like a joke (be easy I am new to this mini thing) it seemed like if I sent it out with the guys the first thing they would do is over rotate the grapple and rip all the hoses off. I was looking at the Ryan’s Equipment grapple and it looks much more rugged. Any opinions?
Otherwise I really liked the simple construction and the access for repair and service seemed great on the SK650.
The Salesmen was telling me that it’s the only mini on the market that has the same travel speed forward and backward… (I haven’t fact checked that one either)
Going to try the Vermeer S650tx next

(sorry the sales guy didnt have his PPE on :msp_thumbdn

 

[Grace Tree]

In the past 4 years we've replaced the hoses on our BM twice. The last time was just PM because they showed lots of abrasion. Otherwise, no trouble aside from replacing some flat face connectors. We use it on almost every job. The bollard sees constant use. Seldom drag the GRCS out of the truck. I welded a 2" receiver on the bottom of the BM and use it for moving equipment.
Phil

View attachment 239103

 

[Kottonwood]

+1 on the sk650 you should def try it out before you buy a vermeer.

As far as the tanks on the side go they are tougher than they look. I had a guy rip an entire fence post out with the hydro tank and the DW fared just fine other than the decal getting scratched off.

The hoses are definitely the weak link of the BMG grapple. When we first got it we smashed them a few times. A log can swing back and crush the line inbetween the mount. We have them all wrapped up now and haven't broken one in months, we still keep a spare on the truck.... not really a big deal. Either way sk650 + bmg grapple = $$$$$$

The BMG isn't the end all be all though, you need forks too. We carry both on the truck with the skid all the time. The BMG is great for picking up longer pieces as well as brush. It sucks for big rounds though, we use the forks and the forks with ratchet strap if the terrain is rough. The forks are lighter so it adds to the weight you can lift and the BMG just doesn't have the balls to hold anything that it can't clamp around.

 

[Pelorus]

+1 on having forks. I added about 150 lb additional steel counterweight to the platform on my SK650, but the grapple bucket still met it's match with a big maple last week. Substituted the forks and no problem. Probably close to a 200 lb weight difference between the bucket and the forks.

 

[treeman75]

The BMG usually will come back to the normal position on its own. Once you get use to working it you wont need the power rotator. We take the mini to almost every job and when we dont we always say where is the mini! The Vermeer and ditch witch have almost the exact same specs. The vermeer controls seem easier to use, I have never run a DW. One thing that was important to me was the hinge point height and the vermeer and DW are both 80". Vermeer is big in Iowa and I run a Vermeer chipper, my dealer takes real good care of my. Since I bought my mini I realized I will never be with out one again!

 

[HappyTreesLLC]

Hey, MarquisTree, I see you are 10 miles from me. Who is your DW dealer? Did you have experience with them?
Vermeer will come to my site tomorrow (5/23/2012) with S650TX and Vermeer grapple. You wanna come and test drive?

 

[treeman75]

I have two buckets for it the smaller one that comes with it and a little bigger grapple bucket. I use the grapple bucket for cleaning up after the stumper. Cleaning out a big stump faster than it takes to grind is awesome. We dont use the cobb forks much any more.

 

[MarquisTree]

Hey, MarquisTree, I see you are 10 miles from me. Who is your DW dealer? Did you have experience with them?
Vermeer will come to my site tomorrow (5/23/2012) with S650TX and Vermeer grapple. You wanna come and test drive?

Wish I could, too much going on tomorrow. Bill is going to bring one out next week for use to try.

The DW dealer is in shrewsbury, first time dealing with them.

My concern with the BMG is this machine is going to be shared by 6 crews, could be wrong but the hose set up scares me. Any one use the Ryan's grapple?

 

[treeman75]

Branch Manager Attachments : Brand Name, High Quality, Best Pricing! I would give Dave a call and talk to him a little. I see what your saying about your crews and the guys running it. You just have to train them on the proper way to use it just like anything else.

 

[Kottonwood]

Wish I could, too much going on tomorrow. Bill is going to bring one out next week for use to try.

The DW dealer is in shrewsbury, first time dealing with them.

My concern with the BMG is this machine is going to be shared by 6 crews, could be wrong but the hose set up scares me. Any one use the Ryan's grapple?

I can see you concern with that... It is sort of a weak link. Guys definitely have to be trained to use it. I will let guys use it to move trees or mulch but only two guys on my crew load the wood trailer with it.

A grapple bucket would most likely be more suitable for you uses. I would suggest getting one that has a large angled opening so you can carry logs straight out. You can take logs out in 8 ft lengths through a 36" gate like that. Also, make sure you don't get something super heavy. Some bucket grapples for minis weigh 500 lbs .... really starts to eat up your lift capacity.

 

[newsawtooth]

Wish I could, too much going on tomorrow. Bill is going to bring one out next week for use to try.

The DW dealer is in shrewsbury, first time dealing with them.

My concern with the BMG is this machine is going to be shared by 6 crews, could be wrong but the hose set up scares me. Any one use the Ryan's grapple?

I broke the Ryan's Grapple hydraulic fittings in under five minutes. Can't blame the implement, I was overzealous and flipped the grapple over the attachment point and back onto the hood of the machine. It was my fault, but they break just as easily.

 

[HappyTreesLLC]

So I as mentioned before, I got Vermeer S600 with Vermeer grapple try out. I'd like to share my experience.
I had pleasure to operate all sorts of machines, earth moving huge excavators, drills, crashers, loaders, off-road trucks etc. but never such a small thing.
My first impression was WTF. Small and awkward.
Here are some words I can put together after:
fast, maneuverable,
ground speed is very fast, nice turning abilities, smooth and not jerky even I did some sudden moves on controls.
powerful,
I feel even over powered by Kubota engine.
easy to use, easy to control
controls are right in-front, very comfortable positioned, resting bar is good support for hand to rest.
fast to get filling
easy to learn for person without any operator experience. I gave to try to all my guys, some of them never operated any think before.
Compact
can fit on my trailer sideways leaving more space for other ships-and-giggles

Conns:
too light
with average bundle of branches Im feeding chipper (BC1800XL) the machine constantly standing on "toes" or i'd say front portion of track.
too slow to feed chipper
since I cant pickup much, chipper process faster then I can feed/load. I can blame my unexpired as well.

So my verdict is - I need to try S800. It is heavier and much more lifting capacity with out sacrificing ground pressure.

 

[Derik L]

Marquis,
We just took advantage of the dw deal. We also have a ding and there is no comparison. It is working out very well for us. I wish they had a more turf friendly track like the dingo but you just have to be careful turning. Or branch manager is about 5 years old and we have only had a few problems with hoses. We cover the two hoses with canvas fire hose and it holds up very well. I noticed in your pics dan the sales man from shrewsbury. They were very good to deal with. We had a problem with one of our pistons and they took care of it right away. If you have any questions please feel free to email me [email protected]. We have about 200 hours on it.

Derik

 

[Derik L]

does any one with a DW sk650 know a hydraulic filter cross for the ditch witch 149 -412.


Derik

 

[HappyTreesLLC]

Marquis,
We just took advantage of the dw deal. We also have a ding and there is no comparison. It is working out very well for us. I wish they had a more turf friendly track like the dingo but you just have to be careful turning. Or branch manager is about 5 years old and we have only had a few problems with hoses. We cover the two hoses with canvas fire hose and it holds up very well. I noticed in your pics dan the sales man from shrewsbury. They were very good to deal with. We had a problem with one of our pistons and they took care of it right away. If you have any questions please feel free to email me [email protected]. We have about 200 hours on it.

Derik

Have you try Vermeer? What is your opinion? Thanks for advance.

 

[arbor pro]

I haven't tried the vermeer 800 but the ditch witch sk650 is definitely more powerful that the vermeer 600. I feed my bc1800 chipper with the sk650 and it keeps up quite well. Was consistently feeding 8" diameter x 30' tall ash trees through it yesterday and sometimes two or three at a time and the sk650 is able to drag/lift/feed just fine but occasionally, it does stand on it's 'toes' as you say. I'm just used to it.

As for tracks, I just installed a set of Prowler narrow turf tracks on my 650 - smooth ride and very easy on the turf. No so good in mud though - got stuck a few times but that was in a really mucky area and when I got stuck, boy did I get stuck! Had to use the 763 and long tow straps to pull it out.

Love that sk650 machine.

AP

 

[arborjockey]

The new owner at my buddys old place stop renting trailers. So the walk behind dingo has to go in the bed of my truck the guy says. And the payload of the truck has to be 7,000lbs. Or I can drive up to troys trailer(15 mi. In the wrong direction) and rent 1 from him and come back. $250 for the machine + $50 per implement. And he'll deliver for around $150.....each way. 550 a day when I used to rent a superior machine for 200 a day with a trailer sorry charlie No machine 4 me.