Best Rigging Rope For Natural/False Crotch, Pulling Trees Over, Tag Lines? 3 Strand?

[deevo]

Lets imagine a rigging rope that has appeared from the top of the tree, and will lower every limb until I reach the top. Now, picture your rope. One you have to constantly throw higher just to rig 3, 4 limbs. What is going to be faster? If you see it any other way than mine, you are a cu$# and deserve to be making $12 an hour like you are. Time is $ idiot. No wonder you are Canadian. ***#ot french.

So what kind of throw line do you use? Easy on the language here big guy:msp_scared: I am not French either.

 

[newsawtooth]

Your such an ignorant ####. So you only work on trees 1,000 feet and taller? I trim parkstrip 15' trees, all the way up to how tall a species grow. I made an example, of where one would want to simply use a single line for quick rigging. Actual tree work? What is your experience? Your a lame. You have any credentials? I will out rig, out cut, out think you loser. I invent ####. You, follow me #####. Yeah let's keep redirecting your lowering line over the one above it, the one above it, when I set my lowering line once. You should try some of my techniques. You even know how to set a false removable crotch from the ground? Explain it, and I'll praise you. Do you even know what that is? That's a pulley, girthed around a high limb, with a lowering line in the pulley, and a tag line connected to the pulley so you can retrieve it after you are done--from the ground. Do you know why that might be advantageous???

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[arborjockey]

For natural crotching small conifers (under 120'), with lots of limbs, the rock climbing rope is actually a good idea. That tight ass kermantel jacket is bullet proof. 10mm so its light and easy to handle. No joke i have one from 10 years ago that visually still looks ok. Its also static so theirs no stretch which I prefer with small stuff.

I also dont tie but one knot when cutting 5-10 braches at a time in those trees(when the job call for it). just 1/2 hitch em'.

Also Im using blocks in the tree as least as possible lately. going back up to get them sucks.

we make good $ why is price such a factor. if i burn up a rope in a year but it saved me time to get 2 other jobs at the end of the year im thousands ahead. 10 minutes a day makes a huge deal at the end of the year.

BTW is he asking or telling.
opcorn:

 

[ApexTreeService]

Not to disappoint you but your in error here, trees been around longer than ships and man had to learn to deal with them before making boats. Moving objects with rope was likely first employed by ancients in the making of pyramids. Tree climbing and rigging has many variable loads and takes time to master. No one just jumps into it from mountain climbing and instantly knows all! I'm not looking to start a fight but just letting you know that downplaying professional tree work is the wrong direction to take here imo.

Ancient people did not rig down trees from within the canopy with blocks, ropes, and lowering devices. Not that I have heard of. They cut once at the base. Then they built boats from them, used them as rollers for big stones, and other building uses.

 

[ApexTreeService]

Mr. Apex: your method of dealing with your hypothetical 45' shrub is BS even if it sounds efficient on paper. I think a lot of the other stuff you say you have done is also a load of BS.
btw, 90% of my work consists of removals on spurs, and I've been at it since 1987.

I do not lie. What have I done that is BS? Try it next time. Toss your throw line, up over a 60' spruce, pile hitch (you know what that is?) the running end of the throw line to the working end of your lowering line and haul your lowering line up and over the APEX, and down to hand level. Now, you have a lowering rope from above, which does not require any resetting. Also useful when you want to pull that 60' shrub over. What is the quickest way to set a tag line at the very top to pull it over against lean? Throw your throw line over, drag your pull line over same direction via pile hitch, then tie working end of pull line to trunk at standing height via running bowline. Now, you have running bowline, from there going straight up trunk, and over top of tree, and down to your alpine butterfly knot that is hooked to your truck. Once you place your wedge cut (1/3), and your back cut to leave appropriate hinge width (5-10%), pull tree over!

You can do something the wrong way your entire life. It's not until someone comes up with a better way you ask yourself "what was I thinking?"

 

[ApexTreeService]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Si Senor. Simple defense mechanism employed by lesser-then-thow inferior humans. See hater-ism, name calling, and other elementary ridiculous thought processes perpetuated by the ignorant. I'll lead, you follow and shut the hell up. Get an education instead of drinking beer and playing ####.

 

[arborjockey]

I do not lie. What have I done that is BS? Try it next time. Toss your throw line, up over a 60' spruce, pile hitch (you know what that is?) the running end of the throw line to the working end of your lowering line and haul your lowering line up and over the APEX, and down to hand level. Now, you have a lowering rope from above, which does not require any resetting. Also useful when you want to pull that 60' shrub over. What is the quickest way to set a tag line at the very top to pull it over against lean? Throw your throw line over, drag your pull line over same direction via pile hitch, then tie working end of pull line to trunk at standing height via running bowline. Now, you have running bowline, from there going straight up trunk, and over top of tree, and down to your alpine butterfly knot that is hooked to your truck. Once you place your wedge cut (1/3), and your back cut to leave appropriate hinge width (5-10%), pull tree over!

You can do something the wrong way your entire life. It's not until someone comes up with a better way you ask yourself "what was I thinking?"

How do you know your rope isnt over a pinky size branch thats snaps at that wrong moment ? oh its only 60' never mind. did you cut and paste that 1/3 and 5-10% out of a handbook?opcorn:

 

[ApexTreeService]

How do you know your rope isnt over a pinky size branch thats snaps at that wrong moment ? oh its only 60' never mind. did you cut and paste that 1/3 and 5-10% out of a handbook?opcorn:

Are there only pinky size limbs in the entire tree? Sure the first 3 or 4 feet will be sparse with vegetation, that's why your groundy throws on the 5:1 via Valdotaine Tresse style mechanical advantage pulley on the lowering line and takes up about a 1000 lbs slack on the first lowering line: to set the line! That is, if you care like you. No, I did not cut and paste. I learned how to fell large timber as a wild land fire fighter. Red carded fire fighter, and certified tree feller. Let me ask you expert, on a dead Siberian Elm tree 4' in diameter, how large would your hinge be?

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I'll just mention that I switched to pulleys for two reasons:

I hired a good climber I have learned a lot from who always uses them, and i wrecked a 200 ft. piece of 5/8 yellow stable braid Samson, which had the shell slip an inch or so the first time I used it even with a pulley (lowering a 25 fir top -- no big deal). Then I used it a second time, lowering around 6 oak limbs using natural crotches (this was before I hired the climber) and had it really cut loose -- you could just pull it apart.

So I tried sending it back, and got nowhere. Before i sent it back, I had cut a small piece to use to haul some logs out of a ditch, and threw that in too -- and the Samson rep said (in a letter -- never did manage to talk to anyone) that the rope failed because I cut it with a knife, leaving it unsealed, instead of with the melt-cutter thing. And this after I wrote a long letter describing exactly what happened, and even included a CD with pics of me rigging the top and using the rope for the first time with a pulley!!:msp_mad:

I have 1/2, 5/8. and 7/8, stable braid as well as 5/8 three strand (actually, I thing the 1/2 is technically something else). I use it all with pulleys, although I started out using the three strand without -- and it got fuzzy. I think the 7/8 is 28,000 lb. I have some specially hard 1/2 in. three strand for use with my arborist come-along.


No natural crotch rigging for me anymore -- one reason is control -- it's way easier to un-stick a hung up limb o re-direct a chunk if you can easily pull it up. Combine a pulley with a tag line, and you can move a piece anywhere you want.

 

[ApexTreeService]

How do you know your rope isnt over a pinky size branch thats snaps at that wrong moment ? oh its only 60' never mind. did you cut and paste that 1/3 and 5-10% out of a handbook?opcorn:

Serious: Have you never thrown your throw line over the top of a tree, hauled your bull rope over, then tied it to the trunk, then your truck, tensioned up, placed your cuts, and pulled the tree over????

 

[murphy4trees]

I didn't take the tie to read more than half a page on this one.. Del's point about going with pulleys all the time is silly... There are plenty of situations to use them and plenty to go NC..

Looking for an everyday rope that can also be loaded over 10,000 lbs is also silly... 1/2" true blue is your work horse... when you need to pull a big back leaner over switch out to a bull rope.. Pretty simple.

 

[treemandan]

Serious: Have you never thrown your throw line over the top of a tree, hauled your bull rope over, then tied it to the trunk, then your truck, tensioned up, placed your cuts, and pulled the tree over????

Its always best to test pull first before any cuts are made to seat the rope real good.

 

[Pelorus]

What works good for person A may not be so good for person B.
I've seen throwlines turn into a schmozzle and cost a lot more time than just taking a ladder off a truck, or climbing the tree in the first place. I don't feel confident pulling over a conifer with a line set with a throwbag in the very top of a tree; I've busted out tops that way before.
But it is good to see that the 45' spruce has now grown to 60'

 

[treemandan]

I do not lie. What have I done that is BS? Try it next time. Toss your throw line, up over a 60' spruce, pile hitch (you know what that is?) the running end of the throw line to the working end of your lowering line and haul your lowering line up and over the APEX, and down to hand level. Now, you have a lowering rope from above, which does not require any resetting. Also useful when you want to pull that 60' shrub over. What is the quickest way to set a tag line at the very top to pull it over against lean? Throw your throw line over, drag your pull line over same direction via pile hitch, then tie working end of pull line to trunk at standing height via running bowline. Now, you have running bowline, from there going straight up trunk, and over top of tree, and down to your alpine butterfly knot that is hooked to your truck. Once you place your wedge cut (1/3), and your back cut to leave appropriate hinge width (5-10%), pull tree over!

You can do something the wrong way your entire life. It's not until someone comes up with a better way you ask yourself "what was I thinking?"

Don't really see anything wrong here.

 

[arborjockey]

This guy thinks he invented tree work. Who do you think your talking to moron.

To answer your question NO 90% of the time I don't pull a conifer over with a line, set by throwing the throw ball over the "apex of the tree. Other trees where I can visually see where my line is over a branch yes.....here's why I dont. I work around million dollar homes, hotel, condos, cars , and people. Can't believe im waisting my time with this.

1st let's start with this 60' spruce. You say theirs not much foliage below. What does that have to do with anything. You said its not over a little branch. Its over the top of the tree? Where Im from spruce trees branches get smaller as you go up. A. V.T knot on a mechanical advantage putting a 1000lbs of pressure ...who cares.

So now your pulling on the top of tree, over something right....but what? a dead stub a little twig or maybe just pushing on some foliage. If it pops the tree sets back and compromises your (highly calculated) hinge and the tree go's? Wherever. I can climb and set that rope before you get that kite string out of your purse.

Dead 4' elm who cares? Lots of factors going into a tree. "what you would do would?" I don't know I can't see the tree. Id use a chainsaw.

Now to your vast tree falling career. Read more post. Everyone here has learned from the BEST. My bossis a 3rd generation logger who has been cutting old growth since he was a teenager. We had a guy who had some piece of paper that he said only about 6 guys a year acquire. Its for falling extremely hazardouse,large burnt trees. He moved his hole family out from Colorado. He lasted 1 week.

 

[treemandan]

What works good for person A may not be so good for person B.
I've seen throwlines turn into a schmozzle and cost a lot more time than just taking a ladder off a truck, or climbing the tree in the first place. I don't feel confident pulling over a conifer with a line set with a throwbag in the very top of a tree; I've busted out tops that way before.
But it is good to see that the 45' spruce has now grown to 60'

You didn't do it right then...


jess sayin.

 

[arborjockey]

3 strand rope is great....to tie your dog up with. It has 1 use in my book. 3\8's waxed to make it stiff as a bored then used as a chainsaw lanyard. The rigidity keeps it away fron the saw.

As far as rigging. That junk got on the bus with manila rope and left town in the early 80's

 

[TreeGuyHR]

snip

Now to your vast tree falling career. Read more post. Everyone here has learned from the BEST. My bossis a 3rd generation logger who has been cutting old growth since he was a teenager. We had a guy who had some piece of paper that he said only about 6 guys a year acquire. Its for falling extremely hazardouse,large burnt trees. He moved his hole family out from Colorado. He lasted 1 week.[/QUOTE]

I believe that's called a "C-Class Faller" certificate, issued buy the US Forest Service. I helped teach the field class portion of the certificate with another guy who has taught it for years -- and he has said that HE learned a lot of his "tricks" from the old tin hat crew in the 70's. He also brags a lot and pisses people off -- but he ALSO has ability -- and still climbs even though he is losing his sight:msp_scared:

Logging (and arborist) rep is all about demonstrated ability and word-of mouth recommendation. I could brag about my book learnin' but that would ALSO be useless.

Anyone thinks they're an expert faller, give 'em the beer can test and check out their stump. Expert rigger? See if they make any money or waste a lot of time in a cluster-f. Note -- I'm still learning -- I now own several ladders, abd yes, I once calmly took my knotted up throw line, cut it up, and set it on fire in the driveway

 

[arborjockey]

snip

Now to your vast tree falling career. Read more post. Everyone here has learned from the BEST. My bossis a 3rd generation logger who has been cutting old growth since he was a teenager. We had a guy who had some piece of paper that he said only about 6 guys a year acquire. Its for falling extremely hazardouse,large burnt trees. He moved his hole family out from Colorado. He lasted 1 week.

I believe that's called a "C-Class Faller" certificate, issued buy the US Forest Service. I helped teach the field class portion of the certificate with another guy who has taught it for years -- and he has said that HE learned a lot of his "tricks" from the old tin hat crew in the 70's. He also brags a lot and pisses people off -- but he ALSO has ability -- and still climbs even though he is losing his sight:msp_scared:

Logging (and arborist) rep is all about demonstrated ability and word-of mouth recommendation. I could brag about my book learnin' but that would ALSO be useless.

Anyone thinks they're an expert faller, give 'em the beer can test and check out their stump. Expert rigger? See if they make any money or waste a lot of time in a cluster-f. Note -- I'm still learning -- I now own several ladders, abd yes, I once calmly took my knotted up throw line, cut it up, and set it on fire in the driveway

Hood river...hmmm we're in Tigard/Durham area
The 3G logger does 90% urban tree work. About 58 years old and climbs the snot out of big trees. I won 10 out of 11 events in some crappy arb class and went to him with a big head. He told me I do most my stuff wrong? No ones ever question my work. He was right. That was 7 years ago. He teaches me 2 new things every day. I love that guy.....Pastor George chrisman one of the best ...of the best.

We show up with really basic equipment and blow through jobs. Not that he doesn't have 7 skiders and a million dollars worth of equipment he chooses to keep it basic. And yeah no throw lines on his job. Not that I don't use them. But when He sees them he ask me where my kites at

 

[TreeGuyHR]

Hood river...hmmm we're in Tigard/Durham area
The 3G logger does 90% urban tree work. About 58 years old and climbs the snot out of big trees. I won 10 out of 11 events in some crappy arb class and went to him with a big head. He told me I do most my stuff wrong? No ones ever question my work. He was right. That was 7 years ago. He teaches me 2 new things every day. I love that guy.....Pastor George chrisman one of the best ...of the best.

We show up with really basic equipment and blow through jobs. Not that he doesn't have 7 skiders and a million dollars worth of equipment he chooses to keep it basic. And yeah no throw lines on his job. Not that I don't use them. But when He sees them he ask me where my kites at

The guy I am referring to is up near Seattle; I used to live in Seattle before coming down to the Gorge in 1999. Going way back, I worked for a tree service out of Sherwood OR in 1987, when I first moved to the west coast --- I'm originally from CT. That company, though, was a bit screwed up, even though it was run by a retired logger; he put no effort into training and safety gear, leading to high turnover in the crew. I was an old timer when I quit after a year.